A newbie guide on kX's (DSP) concept or "How to setup your DSP".

Discussion in 'Effects and the DSP' started by Lex Nahumury, Sep 11, 2004.

  1. dj_stick

    dj_stick Apple Fanboy?

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    i can correct the typos/grammar if you need - but it will be australian english, not american english
     
  2. thomasabarnes

    thomasabarnes Long Time ***** Friend

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    Hey LeMury, I'm only a PM away.:)
     
  3. Lex Nahumury

    Lex Nahumury DH Senior Member

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    Thanks Thomas and Stick.
     
  4. s-p-a-c-e

    s-p-a-c-e New Member

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    Great topic! It helped a lot!

    Although I don't know why, I can't make the ASIO ProFX to work at all with my Sonar 3.1! I've tried everything but I ended using the Epilog (which only works fine when using ASIO ch 14 & 15 - For some reason, my SB Live plat 5.1 doesn't work right when using ASIO ch 0/1).

    Well, so far so good...(aside this little ASIO profx thing)...my Line In is working fine and also my MIDI. So, I´m good to go! ;-D

    Thanks for the great explanation!

    Alex.

    ps: by the way...there's no way my new Sonar ASIO 48 Khz low latency config will play my old 44.1 WDM not-so-good-latency recordings, right? :eek:)
     
  5. Lex Nahumury

    Lex Nahumury DH Senior Member

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    >>Although I don't know why, I can't make the ASIO ProFX to work at all with
    >>my Sonar 3.1! I've tried everything but I ended using the Epilog (which only
    >>works fine when using ASIO ch 14 & 15 - For some reason, my SB Live plat
    >>5.1 doesn't work right when using ASIO ch 0/1).

    Yes, certain card models have this 'known asio input mapping issue'.
    Your card is no doubt one of them..(see kX FAQ at kX site).
    Some of the lower ASIO inputs don't work, and the mapping gets shifted.
    The ASIO PROFX should work (although a bit different then Epilog).
    All and all it's a matter of trial and error to find out how your card maps.
    Just as it is not true that on Epilog only 14/15 works.
    You have to check all inputs and stereo combinations.

    >>..by the way...there's no way my new Sonar ASIO 48 Khz low latency
    >>config will play my old 44.1 WDM not-so-good-latency recordings

    Yes there is. Just convert your "old 44khz recordings/audio files" to 48kHz,
    re-import them (or whatever it is called in SONAR),
    set your Project to 48kHz, and it will be fine:).

    Use a good samplerate converter.
    There used to be a very good free one by EMU called SRConv.
    (Specialy distributed for the APS which also works at 48khz)
    I still have/use it, but I don't know if it's legaly OK to distribute it here.

    /LeMury
     
  6. thomasabarnes

    thomasabarnes Long Time ***** Friend

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    Our dear LeMury. You're outstanding with your help!

    Cya around guy.
     
  7. Way2Loud

    Way2Loud New Member

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  8. Lex Nahumury

    Lex Nahumury DH Senior Member

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  9. Lex Nahumury

    Lex Nahumury DH Senior Member

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  10. thomasabarnes

    thomasabarnes Long Time ***** Friend

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  11. The_TC1

    The_TC1 New Member

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    Hello gang!
    I think I get the basic concept of the DSP.
    But there are still some "unknown" that I can't just get.

    Is there a guide out there that explains in details the different plugins?
    Like in the SRC plugin, my card (SB0105 5.1) has in total 20 inputs:
    The AC97 ones, a few others and the FXBus pairs.
    I'd like to have a better understanding of all these inputs and where they are (physically) on my card.
    Also, is there a guide for all the plugins that I see in the plugins list?
    Most of them are sort of self explanatory but there are a few that I would like to know better. Like what is the difference between the 3 FXBusses (FXBus, FXBus2 and FXBusX), the epilogs, what is this p16v, etc..
    I think you get where I'm going with all this.

    Also, the kXrouter, I still have to understand its purpose. I just can't relate to its relationship with the sound path. I mean, in the WAVE section, I see all the WAVE x/x and the AC3 Passthru. What are these for? How can I work with these? What can I do?

    I did read the beginner's guides, I think I understand the very minimal basics of the kXdrivers way of working but I don't get a good grasp of the whole. I still fail to "relate" to the stacking modules analogy. I can't seem to see the different parts of the kX drivers as if they were actual physical units, like I would in a studio with patchcords and knobs and all.

    To summarize this message: HELP!?!

    TC1
     
  12. Lex Nahumury

    Lex Nahumury DH Senior Member

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    >>Is there a guide out there that explains in details the different plugins?
    Not that I know of, but the ones you mostly need/use are kinda selfexplanatory
    like the "real" DSP effects; reverb, chorus, compressors etc.
    Then you have lots of 'mixers', 'gains' etc. Well, also not hard to understand.
    Don't bother with the rest unless you have time to spare:)
    Note; these are all DSP effects of course.


    >>Like what is the difference between the 3 FXBusses (FXBus, FXBus2 and
    >>FXBusX), the epilogs, what is this p16v, etc..
    Don't bother with those 'legacy' fxbusses, epilogs etc.
    p16v is a special chip which I think you dont have on your card type.
    (see kX Help->appendix A->Technical reference in the tray icon)


    >>Like in the SRC plugin, my card (SB0105 5.1) has in total 20 inputs:
    >>The AC97 ones, a few others and the FXBus pairs.
    >>I'd like to have a better understanding of all these inputs and where they
    >>are (physically) on my card.
    The AC97 inputs are obvious; line-in, mic on the back of your card.
    Aux, cd etc also on the card, but not on the back plate.
    The fxbusses,..well, these are the fxbusses...duh.
    The SPDIFs are the digital inputs on your card.
    You have to connect them inside the computer case.
    I2S inputs (Line-In2, mic2, aux2 etc.) only work if you have a LiveDrive.
    (see kX Help->appendix A->Technical reference in the tray icon)


    >>Also, the kXrouter, I still have to understand its purpose.
    >>I just can't relate to its relationship with the sound path.
    kX Router "just" tells at which FXBUS number a certain PLAYBACK signal will appear.
    There are quite some different types of audio PLAYBACK signals in a PC.
    ASIO, PCM WAVE, AC3, Midi (soundfont)Synth...
    It just depends what kind of music app. you use.
    If you playback an mp3 or wav via WMP, this is "plain windows pcm stuff",
    and hence, appears at wave 0/1 on fxbus 0/1 (by default).
    If you playback your ASIO program, those asio playback signals appear
    at fxbuss 0~15 (by default).
    If you playback the midi synth, it will playback on fxbuss 2/3 (by default)
    Same goes for AC3 playback.
    So basicly, kX Router simply 'maps' *all* playback signals to the fxbus numbers.
    That's it. The default mapping is fine in most cases.

    >>I still fail to "relate" to the stacking modules analogy.
    Do you mean the DSP plugins?

    >>I can't seem to see the different parts of the kX drivers as if they were
    >>actual physical units, like I would in a studio with patchcords and knobs >>and all.
    Apart from a few driver setting, The DSP window is all you need.
    I think this window gives a pretty good "patchcord" overview.
    Just avoid 'kX mixer' and the default setup.
    So what's confusing you?
    The I/O plugins perhaps?

    /LeMury
     
  13. The_TC1

    The_TC1 New Member

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    I guess it is my lack of understanding how a sound studio works that prevent me from understanding, or grasping, the whole idea here. Or maybe it is just that I see the DSP as what it is not. I don't know. I have the feeling it is just a matter of connecting the dots together and then I'll be fine.

    I have plenty of time, don't worry. But this is not my main concern right now. :)

    I guess there are parts I haven't read yet. I will tho. ;)

    I guess I will have to play around with that to undestand it fully. It just doesn't sink in for now. :confused:

    I understand the part where all I need is the DSP window. :)
    The I/O is sort of OK but as mentionned above, I still need to get a good grasp of it.
    My main problem is working the in-between.
    Not necessarily the actual processing plugins (Compressors, delays, reverbs, etc..) but more the different ways to route the signal thru.

    For example, in your "How to setup kX with Cubase SX", the last example down at the very bottom of your guide "Here is another more complex example".
    You are using 2 FxMix modules and in the previous examples you are using the MX6 module. I don't undestand the difference. :confused:
    It is probably because I don't know the function of those two modules.
    That was my 1st question in my initial post "Is there a guide out there that explains in details the different plugins?"

    It's hard to tell you exactly what I don't understand. It's the whole thing that I have a hard time with. :(
    I guess if I had previous hands on experience with an actual recording studio, I wouldn't be here asking all those questions.
    The more I think about it, the more it seems that it is not with kX my problems but more with the concept of signal routing and the different processes you can apply to the signal before the final output. :oops:

    I probably fall more into the Dummies group than just the beginners group. :uhoh:

    TC1
     
  14. Lex Nahumury

    Lex Nahumury DH Senior Member

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    I see.

    >>You are using 2 FxMix modules and in the previous examples you are using
    >>the MX6 module. I don't undestand the difference.

    Plugins like FxMix, Stereo Mix etc., and the MX6 are all Mixers.
    That is; they mix signals just as a 'real' mixer does.
    Only difference between all these mixer plugins is stuff like;
    -how many channels
    -stereo or mono or both
    -how many busses
    -with or whitout 'gain'
    -nifty stuff or simple etc. etc.
    ..just as there are all kinds of Mixers in the real world.
    Small ones, big ones. You get the picture.

    Mixing signals is the most common audio process of all.
    A real mixer console is often the 'Control Center' of any sound recording
    setup, since it ties everything together.

    So, I guess you have to do some studying on 'basic audio recording' in general.

    /LeMury
     
  15. The_TC1

    The_TC1 New Member

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    Though I do understand the concept of audio recording, its application is quite another story. :confused:
    Well, I'm off to study and experiment for a while. :dead:

    Thanks a million for taking the time to answer my lame questions.:)
    Next time around, I hope to sound a little less "idiot" in my questions. :oops:
     
  16. Lex Nahumury

    Lex Nahumury DH Senior Member

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    np, that's what this thread is for, and btw, your questions are not lame nor "idiot".
    You have read all the guides but just not yet "grasped" kX's concept fully. That's all.

    Lame is when people don't (want to) read the docs and guides first,
    before starting to ask questions..!

    /LeMury
     
  17. The_TC1

    The_TC1 New Member

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    You're so kind! ;)
    I've been told to RTFM (Read The Fuckin' Manual) a few times before so, I learned.
    I'm the type to jump in and try to figure things out before the infamous RTFM.
    Then, if I get stuck, I RTFM.
    Lastly, I get to the Forum.

    I played a bit more with it last nite.
    I'm getting the hang of it a bit better now.
    Too bad there's not an explanation of the individual plugins.
    It would save some time with the experimentation.

    Between the understaning of the plugin effect and the setup of the software, there are quite a bit of variables to check out.
    And I'm not talking about the "effects" plugins but the "routing" plugins.

    Anyways, it's fun to learn new things. ;)

    Thanks a gain and take care.
     
  18. The_TC1

    The_TC1 New Member

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    Looking a bit more into it this morning, a simple description of the individual plugins in the "Add Effect/plugin" section of the DSP window would be just what is needed.
    I believe all my questions would be answered from these descriptions.
    Such desciptions are not available, are they?

    Also, are there 3rd party plugins available for the kX v3537?
    I just learn about the Tube Drive from EF-X but is available only for the 3538 version of kX.
     
  19. Tiger M

    Tiger M kX user

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    There are some more primitive distortion plugins I've done for 3537. Check out:

    You will have to right click and "Save As" to download.

    hard clipping fuzzbox
    http://www.angelfire.com/jazz/tigersplace/kxlplugins/clip.kxl

    soft cliping fuzzbox
    http://www.angelfire.com/jazz/tigersplace/kxlplugins/fuzz.kxl

    And don't forget the fameous Max Mikhailov's UFX plugins. I always forget the link though. Try http://www.electicstart.de - somewhere on that site.
    They are awesome and hopefully will be included with the next driver version
     
  20. The_TC1

    The_TC1 New Member

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    Thanks Tiger for your two plugins.
    I will try them today.

    The link to Max Mikhailov's UFX plugins is not working though.
    I'll try a Google search and see if anything comes up.

    Thanks again.
     

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