A newbie guide on kX's (DSP) concept or "How to setup your DSP".

Discussion in 'Effects and the DSP' started by Lex Nahumury, Sep 11, 2004.

  1. Tiger M

    Tiger M kX user

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  2. Lex Nahumury

    Lex Nahumury DH Senior Member

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    >>And I'm not talking about the "effects" plugins but the "routing" plugins.
    Ok, but what dou you mean with "routing" plugins exactly?

    Roughly there are 4 kinds of plugins;

    - I/O plugins (very important)
    - "real fx" plugins (reverb, chorus, EQs, etc.)
    - Mixer plugins
    - miscelanious plugins (wavegenerator, b2b etc.)

    Routing (as I see it) is mainly done by the I/O plugins
    which take care of *routing signals* In and Out of the DSP.

    Routing *in* the DSP itself is done via the various Mixer plugins
    and the "bleu wiring" itself of course.

    At last;
    There are lots of plugins in the fx menu that are hardly ever used.
    Some are "left overs" from newer versions, others are "useless" to most people.
    Just take a look at the example setups on this forum.
    You'll find that people use about the same plugins, beeing;
    - I/O plugins of course
    - some fx plugins
    - mixer plugins

    That's it.


    /LeMury
     
  3. The_TC1

    The_TC1 New Member

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    I guess I meant the mixer plugins and all the "in between" plugins.
    I still have to familiarize myself better with the I/O plugins but I don't see this as a major problem.

    If just a lttle part of the plugins are being used by most, then a little cleanup wouldn't be a bad idea, wouldn't you think?
    Leave the odd and seldom used plugins in a separate package that people would D/L if need be.

    I think what is confusing me the most is that there are a lot of plugins in the list and no description for any of them.
    I'm like the little kid, if you tell me not to touch, I will. If it's out of my view, I won't look for it.

    I did but weht thru them fast.
    I'll take the time to look again in more depth.
     
  4. The_TC1

    The_TC1 New Member

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  5. Lex Nahumury

    Lex Nahumury DH Senior Member

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    Well, that's a good thing since most users seem to have trouble understanding
    how the I/O plugins (which *is* kX's interface) interacts with the applications (programs) they want to run.

    Hehe,..funny. But your not a kid, so... stay out of trouble..!:)

    /LeMury
     
  6. thomasabarnes

    thomasabarnes Long Time ***** Friend

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    LeMury:

    OMG! The new guides are fantasic. It's just what I always thought was needed!

    You added a quick start guide: It's great. Just what most people probably wanted. Most want to get right started when they get the kX Driver and software, and this Quick Start Guide is fantastic for that. Then, when they see how their kX compatible sound card sounds impressively better using the kX drivers, and when they see that the kX ASIO Driver give more stable and lower lentency than the Creative drivers, they will want to learn how to unleash the more flexible and powereful potential of kX and their kX compatible cards! Hence, they can read your epanded Basic guide!

    You have truely made using the kX driver easy to do! Fantastic job! Remember, after helping me to understand how to work in the DSP, and I was finally catching on? Well, you asked me, "now it's really not hard to make your own DSP, isn't it?" And I said, well it's still a lot to understand and more documentation would be helpful to that end. Well, I just finished reading the two guides you made available, and I have to say, after reading those guides, making your own DSP is easy, and one can come to have a practical understanding of how to get desired results by working in the DSP to build the DSP fitting for any individual. Building your own DSP setup is easy man! Thanks to these guides you have provided!

    IMHO, these guides should be included in the help files that come with the kX Driver downloads of the more recent dirver versions! I can easily throw out names for them: "kX QuickStart Guide (Musician Oriented)" and "Essential Reading: kX DSP Basics" or "kX Essential Things To Know."

    LOL, I'm just so glad about this! Fantastic job LeMury. And if these guides are included with the driver downloads. may I, humbly, bring to your attention there are a few typo grammer matters that could be fixed.:)

    Thanks LeMury, you have done some great work.

    Sincerely, thomasabarnes
     
  7. Lex Nahumury

    Lex Nahumury DH Senior Member

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    Always..!

    Thanks for the review.
    Let's hope the real newbies think the same..:cool: .

    /LeMury
     
  8. dj_stick

    dj_stick Apple Fanboy?

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    LeMury, check your PM :)
     
  9. thomasabarnes

    thomasabarnes Long Time ***** Friend

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    "Let's hope the real newbies think the same..:cool:"

    You got me thinking from a complete newbee view with that statement.

    The only problem a complete newbee may encounter after reading your guide/s is not knowing how to get to the DSP, how to clear the DSP, how to load and unload items/plug ins, and how to connect/disconnect the virtual wires. This can be solved by making a mention of users to read the kX DSP Guide of the Help File.


    Lastly, new users may not know where to find the ProFX plug ins, so a detailed description of how to get to these could be mentioned. You do give a detailed description of how to get to the kXRouter assuming the DSP is already open, but if a newbee really has no knowledge of kX whatesoever, it probably will be helpful if they were told how to get to these things. I know pics are included in the two guides, but if a total newbee consults the guides, it will be helpful if they were told how to get to the plugins included in the guides.

    This is very simple stuff of which the kX DSP Guide in the kX Help file covers in detail, so making a mention of this and how to get to the ProFX plug ins should make for succesful guides for those who know nothing at all about kX.

    Subsequent to the above mentioned becoming an addition to the guides, only users with an IQ considerably below average, should have any problems creating their own designed working DSP.

    thomasabarnes
     
  10. Lex Nahumury

    Lex Nahumury DH Senior Member

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    Thomas,

    I've been through all that really, but that is where I draw the line.
    If a person is not able to accomplish what you just described,...
    .....well, like I said; it's a newbee guide, not a dummy guide..!

    /LeMury
     
  11. thomasabarnes

    thomasabarnes Long Time ***** Friend

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    I hear you LeMury. It's only two additional sentences: one sentence saying:

    1) If you dont understand how to do something talked about in this guide, read the kX
    DSP Guide of the Help File.
    2) Select a ProFX plugin: right click the DSP and go to Add Effects/Plugins->ProFX

    If that's too much for you to add, one can always come to the forum for help, if they have problems with anything.

    thomasabarnes

    P.S. I'm LOL at you saying that's where I draw the line.
     
  12. Lex Nahumury

    Lex Nahumury DH Senior Member

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    I hear you too Thomas:),

    >>If that's too much for you to add..
    No, that's not the point. That's why I said "I've been through all that".
    I really think that adding 'basic' lines like;
    .."right click the DSP and go to Add Effects/Plugins->ProFX.."
    at this stage works counter productive as it takes the reader's focus of the main issue
    which is; trying to understand a quite complex concept.

    Operating kX (right clicking, menus and stuff) is 'Basic'.
    Understanding kX's DSP concept is 'Advanced'.

    I'd say; keep the basic stuff in the basic help/docs etc.,
    and the advanced.....

    However, I agree that some additional pre-warnings could be added like;
    "Warning!!! Permanent brain damage hazzard..! Read basic kX survival guide first.!!"

    /LeMury
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2005
  13. thomasabarnes

    thomasabarnes Long Time ***** Friend

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    LOL OK LeMury.

    thomasabarnes

    Edit: On second thought, you could have placed those two sentences (or something similarly helpful) in a preface or prelude to the guides (then the reader wouldnt be distracted). That way a musican who is a complete newbee drawn to the kX Project Audio Driver can easily and quickly benefit form your guides.:) LOL I mean, Heck, the kX Project was started to benefit musicans, So, shouldnt helping the musician newbee be one of the the main focuses of the documentation? And, it's your new guides that can easily help these newbees to start "Expanding The Potential Expotentially!"
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2004
  14. Lex Nahumury

    Lex Nahumury DH Senior Member

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    Yes, but are you sure those 2 sentences are enough?....I mean;

    -check if you are alive (bang head firmly against nearest wall. If hurts, proceed)
    -check if you can read (if you understand these signs called text, proceed)
    -check if you have a pc (if you are reading this, proceed)
    ......
    ......
    (hours later)
    -check if you have a mouse (put hand on rodent resembling device. If it does not run away, proceed)

    No, my dear friend, I will not consciously contribute to the already endless stupidity and growing lazyness of mankind.
    "God helps those who help themselves...",
    which (for non-religious people) roughly translates into;
    ..don't expect any help if you are to lazy to try to succeed yourself..!

    /LeMury
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2005
  15. dj_stick

    dj_stick Apple Fanboy?

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    haha classic
     
  16. Lex Nahumury

    Lex Nahumury DH Senior Member

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    I fail to see the humor in that part. I think it's rather sad.
    Oh well,..must be the age difference I guess.
     
  17. thomasabarnes

    thomasabarnes Long Time ***** Friend

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    OK. I tried. But I fail to undertand sometime. I mean, people complain here that newbies ask repetitious questions here all the time. So, it was decided to appeal to users for more documentation. It is my thinking that additional documentation made available is intended to serve the purpose of a reference to lessen the amount of newbie questions (Lord knows there are still gona be questions), but it seems to me it cant hurt to have a consise help that is more comprehensive. It, therefore, seems logical to me that the documentation be as helpful as possible, even to a complete newbee. I remember how I felt when I first learned about kX, and I had to leave it alone and sit back read and do time consuming searches for fragmented information that was helpful to me for understanding how to use kX. That was completely terrible for the creative process (and it kills inspiration) when working on a song. Nobody wants to be searching forums for information (to see how to do something) when working on a project in music production!

    Actually, I think that really sucks, and I was, then, and still am of the view kX documentation should be as well as the documentation included with the Creative Labs commercial sound card (because kX makes it better). I dont have that ability, so when I see success in kX achieving that status (with guides like you provided and like DJ_Stick provided), I advocate for the newbie. There will still be questions, but these guides greatly improve the situation that existed before the appearance of these guides. So, notable progress has been made!

    Anyway, these guides you provide already make tapping into the power of the kX compatible cards and using the kX driver and software easy and far less confusing than it was before. l'll leave this alone, now, because I dont want to discourage your greatly appreciated help in all that you contribute to the kX community. And hopefully, one day we can see the advanced guide you once mentioned you might make available.

    I think youre a great help to us LeMury. Thanks for everything Dear fellow.

    Sincerely, thomasabarnes

    thomasabarnes
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2004
  18. trevbushell

    trevbushell New Member

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    anyone able to help with my meagre attempts to master the basics of DSP?

    i have read and digested lemury's newbie guide and looked at dsp setp threads , but cant get to record a line in on my aps into cubase to record.

    1. IN DSP-
    -I have used pro fx to add -a src for fx bus 1 (c.d)
    -a src for fx bus 2 (midi)
    -these two are attached to the two stereo mix inputs ( is this right?) which in turn is going to k1lt. I can hear the audio and midi ok thro speakers!
    so far so good.

    2. i added a src for line in, which on emu aps is 'Analogue in 3 and 4'. this is routed straight to asio 0 and 1. nothing, not a sausage in cubase sx!! i have gone into cubas VST connections and routed all the kx to vst asio inputs and outputs as told on the lemury kx/cubasesx setup guide. what am i doing wrong?
    p.s-if i route the line in to the speakers i can hear the mic working.
    pps- i set the cubase input and output to stereo in and out.
    any ideas?????
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2005
  19. Lex Nahumury

    Lex Nahumury DH Senior Member

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    Yes, that should be right (I don't have APS to check).
    Check if any signal is coming from that [SRC set to analogue In], by
    connecting a Peak meter to it in the DSP.
    If you do get signal there, the problem is elsewere.

    /LeMury
     
  20. trevbushell

    trevbushell New Member

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    thanks lemury, that was a good thought.
    i connected a peak meter to the src (analogue in 3) and it is showing a good signal. I'm only getting mono though which is a bit wierd as with the old aps driver i used (with wins 98) i used to get stereo out of this mic jack input?? all i'm getting is a left side signal.

    i added an fx mix and put all srcs thro that so am also hearing the mic input coming out of the left speaker!
    i am not getting anything into cubase though. have i done the busses ok in cubase? i have set the inputs and outputs as you said in the sx/kx guide (i.e 1kx into asio device 00; 2kx into asio 01 etc). i go into a cubase stereo (and ive tried mono) audio channel and set stereo in and stereo out. still nothing.

    asio is set ti kx, 5ms latency, 48,000hz. i can play back wavs in cubase and hear them ok. i can hear fruityloops and c.d etc and midi.
    its very frustrating!
    really hope you can help? thanks again for you help so far!
    trev

    edit post- AH... with regard to only left side input....just thought it might be a good idea to check the connections to the e-card inside the computer...i did that and all connections were ok as far as i could see. a mic going into analogue strip 3 would become stereo automatically wouldnt it, im certain it used to be stereo even though going through one inut at the front.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2005

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