A newbie guide on kX's (DSP) concept or "How to setup your DSP".

Discussion in 'Effects and the DSP' started by Lex Nahumury, Sep 11, 2004.

  1. Lex Nahumury

    Lex Nahumury DH Senior Member

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    Ok,..one step at a time;
    1. I can't confirm if Mic is suppose to enter the DSP in mono on the APS, but that really doesn't matter.
    Afterall it is a mono signal and is easily made 'stereo' in the DSP if you wish.
    I'm almost certain that EMU drivers also do that in the DSP.

    2. What matters is that you actualy *get* signal in the DSP.
    Once it is in the DSP you can process it if you wish, and send it to;
    - your PC = Cubase SX via the ASIO outputs on [Epilog] or [Profx Asio]
    - speaker outputs = Rear, front etc

    3. If you don't get signal into SX, you have not connected it properly to ASIO in the DSP,
    or have not setup SX properly, or both.

    At this point i would like you to remember that I adviced you to use the asio mapping procedure
    (using the wave generator etc.) to learn/check your kX->ASIO->SX setup.
    That procedure is all about getting recording signals from the DSP into SX..!!!!
    So do it!
    There is no difference between getting a Mic signal or getting a WaveGenerator signal into SX.

    I'm sure you'll find what you have overlooked.

    /LeMury
     
  2. trevbushell

    trevbushell New Member

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    ok,
    thanks lemury,
    things are a little better, ive got audio into cubase now,so thanks, and thanks for being patient with me. when you are not used to busses and routing its a tough thing to get to grips with. i just have a small issue now, doesnt need to be resolved really as at least i can record now.

    If i use wave generator on the vst connection settings you advised, stereo in (1) is mapped to ASIO 15 and 16 in DSP.. So i changed the buss setings so that stereo in is ASIO 0 and 1 and so on. if i check this (and in the previous connection you advised) in normal dsp mode ('double mono' signal from mic) i seem to lose ASIO 1 and 2 (ie the R in stereo2 and L in stereo 3.) I've tried messing around with the buss settings again but no luck. cant resolve it!

    i note that your 'issue card' on your guide to DSP/sx setup the mixer has a similar error.

    i also note that in your guide you talk about hitting F5 for the VST inputs and outputs. now this F5 key doesnt bring these inputs/outputs up for me and i cant find them in cubase or mentioned in the help file. do i need to change these or are they the same as the 'vst connections' box? im thinking maybe this is thre problem and if so where do i find it?

    again much obliged. soon you will be free of me (yeah right!!)
    trev

    edit... i have noted the thread on 8th feb, (pro effects k1lt kills asio 1 and 2.) So this is an unsolvable mapping issue by the looks of it! no problem, nice to know it wasnt me this time!! lol
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2005
  3. Lex Nahumury

    Lex Nahumury DH Senior Member

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    F4 in Cubase SX2.x is same as F4 and F5 in SX1.x. (as mentioned in my Cubase guide).
    'vst connections' is the same as 'VST inputs and outputs'.


    Normaly only on CL issue cards.
    The fact that it may happen on APS cards is because k1lt doesn't really support APS.
    (hmm,..I have to fix that sometime, but I don't have an aps to verify)
    Use Epilog instead of [k1lt+Asio] if you run in to much trouble.

    /LeMury
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2005
  4. trevbushell

    trevbushell New Member

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    lemury,
    you are indispensible!!! thanks for all your time spent on me. really appreciate it.

    If God gave out halos........
    This truly is an amazing card! Shame to Emu who couldnt be bothered (or didnt have the time/money perhaps?) to upgrade APS drivers or get even 5% as much usablility as you have managed to get with the kx drivers. You deserve a Knight hood.

    Next learning curve... how to put different effects into different midi channels. hey ho here we go! Now wheres that thread?
    trev
     
  5. Lex Nahumury

    Lex Nahumury DH Senior Member

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    kX Synth is a 'playback type' signal, so these signals always enter the DSP through the [FXBus].
    Upload [FXbus] or instances of ProFx's [SRC] to get these signals into the DSP.

    By default, all 16 midi channels are mapped to fxbus pair 2/3.
    So all synth playback is mixed together into that single fxbus pair.
    Also by default, the GM compatible Reverb/Chorus send signal portions are mapped to fxbus 13/14.

    To change the above default behaviour in order to process midi channels seperatly in the DSP,
    you will have to change that default mapping.
    Open the 'kX Router' applet from the tray menu and change the Synth1, Synth2 mappings.
    (Don't forget to save all kX settings after you are done)
    Now you can 'pick up' those seperate Synth playback signals in the DSP and do whatever you want with them.
    That's it.

    /LeMury
     
  6. trevbushell

    trevbushell New Member

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    thanks lemury,
    i wasnt expecting a "how to" as youve spent so much time on me already, but that makes it a whole lot easier than searching threads for info on midi effects, thankyou. I'll give it a go asap and see how i get on!!!

    when you talk about saving, can you save the settings of the router and dsp for each different song within the cubase songfile or do you have to save the settings as a 'router and dsp' save and load them in for each song if they are different? if it can be done within cubase how do you do that or is it automatic? is this a stupid question?? (dont answer that!!)
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2005
  7. AyJayOlly

    AyJayOlly New Member

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    First to LeMury........

    This is me when I first looked at kX :confused: :hmm:
    This is me when I thought I had lost all sound on my PC :w00t: :uhoh: :mad:
    This is me when I read your guide [​IMG] :)

    Fair play mate!! kX DSP is a piece of cake.....now....at least when someone else....like you....explains how it works so eloquently.

    Nice one!!

    Just a query though...thanks to anyone for any advice offered.

    QUICK SPEC
    AMD Athlon 2.1 ghz & 512mB RAM
    Win XP-SP2 Home Edition - all up-to-date
    Audigy SB0092 (OEM I think)

    This onboard DSP thingy......I assume this is a hardware chip on my soundcard and that by using it for DSP FX, I cut down on my CPU usage when using VST instruments.

    So when I use a VST host sequencer (like Traktion, Cubase, etc), I am able to concentrate the FX onto the DSP chip and the VST instruments onto the PC CPU? This then gives me more CPU power for the VST synths.

    Another way of saying it could be that I don't need to load VST FX plugins, I can use the kX DSP as an alternative and save on CPU processing.

    I am about to start experimenting with the kX DSP so I will most probably find out for myself but I would like to know if I am correct in my assumptions.

    Again to LeMury, nice guide.

    Thanks.
     
  8. Lex Nahumury

    Lex Nahumury DH Senior Member

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    Partialy yes. An example would be;
    Using kX DSP Reverb as a send fx channel in your ASIO host instead of some CPU hungry VST Reverb.

    Keep in mind tho, that you can not use kX DSP fx as 'native VST plugin effects'.
    So you will loose some VST specific features like 'Export to wav' etc.

    /LeMury
     
  9. AyJayOlly

    AyJayOlly New Member

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    Dew dew! Quick reply! Thanks!

    Of course! The penny drops.

    I could always record the stereo mix onto the hard-drive internally or via an external recorder like CoolEdit or Audiograbber as an alternative though, it's pretty much the same thing, I could even do some realtime mixing as it is recording. Just like I am used to in the hardware studio.

    If that is too CPU hungry, I also own a minidisc recorder so I could also use that to record onto and then play that back into the PC via optical.

    There's always pros and cons whith different systems and setups. I think the kX DSP pros outweight the cons in the long term. Thanks for that little tip though, I would have been :wtf: - NO FX!?

    Anyway, the best way to do things is to do them so I am off to experiment.

    Thanks again.
     
  10. tomyonke

    tomyonke New Member

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    One minor question.

    Hi people. I have a minor question about setting something in DSP. I use cubase sx2 and i want to have 4 seperate BUSes for output, and then i want to record my mix in realtime back to Cubase. I have made 4 PROFx src (FXBus 0/1, 14/15, 4/5 and 6/7). I connected them to MX6 inputs and to Asio inputs. From mixer i connected to Kxlt to Rear and Rec to Win.
    My problem is:
    I can mix in Cubase with 4 different BUSes, but when i record my mix to audio track in Cubase it records only one FXBus. I enabled 4 in/out buses in VST connection. I only need 4 seperate BUS outputs and one input, becouse everything is wave. Do i need seperate BUS inputes?
    What am i doing wrong.

    Another thing is when i set my rec out on MX6 to ASIO ins i can record everything what i hear, but i think this setting is not the right one.

    Can somebody help me out?

    Best regards.
    Yonke
     
  11. AyJayOlly

    AyJayOlly New Member

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    Hello tomyonke, Sorry, I won't be much help as I don't really know too much about kX DSP or SX-2 but I have just got a simple multi-routing setup working OK with Tracktion 1. [​IMG]

    Hmmmmm..You can hear the four busses in playback but only record one of the busses?

    Can you record more than one track at a time in SX? Maybe you need to route the other three busses to the bus/track your recording on. Or if multi-track recording is available then arm all 4 busses for recording.

    That's all I can think of at the moment, I have been awake for nearly 33 hours and I am very, very tired. But I shall sleep well knowing I tried to help someone and I got the DSP basics sussed.:rolleyes:

    Good luck..........
     
  12. tomyonke

    tomyonke New Member

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    AyJayOlly thank you for your help. I'll try to find out what's wrong and i'll wait for some other help.
    :(
     
  13. Nials

    Nials New Member

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    I take it the original guide is still relevant? If so I'm going to read it in a bit, just installed kX drivers :)

    Thanks a lot!
     
  14. Lex Nahumury

    Lex Nahumury DH Senior Member

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    Yes it is.

    /LeMury
     
  15. latuman

    latuman New Member

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    I have probably a noobish question, but it concerns my 4.1 set. This is Logitech z560 speaker set. Sound card is Audigy Player and I use the latest kX drivers.

    First I'd like to say that these are fantastic drivers, Creative's just used a secret EQ to mess up sound, but this rocks.

    Now.

    I have my own EQ settings set up nicely. This works splendidly. Also, I use 4.0 mode (no separate subwoofer output) and I "copy" the front channel sound to the back, so stereo with a big sound across my room. Only problem is, that EQ only applies to the front channels.

    I noticed this when I switched to my headphones, and just for kicks tried what happened if I pressed the button that swaps between front and rear speakers, suddenly, the sound was not EQ'd and I really want the EQ to apply to every single speaker.

    I use unswapped settings, so front speakers work with front signals etc. I just noticed that most likely the EQ does not apply to the rear speakers, so how can I make EQ work on all four?

    Might be that it's not EQ's fault, but the sound is still different, but with the same volume (Creative's drivers had this thing with rear channel too, except the volume on the rear was a lot lower, the main reason to switch to kX drivers for me).

    So most likely, EQ not applying to the back. How do I fix this?

    I hope this is in the right thread...
     
  16. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member

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    What EQ are you using? A kX plugin, or some software EQ?
    A software EQ should work with both because it is the same signal going to the front and rear in copy mode. If it is a kX plugin, then most likely it is only stereo, so you would want to move it to a different place in the DSP window (before Surrounder instead of after it), so that it is applied to the signal before it is copied to the rear channels.
     
  17. latuman

    latuman New Member

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    Yes, I use kX EQ, and read the newbie guide for DSP. However, There were really not much I understood. Now, does this placing-eq-first need some "wiring" in the DSP, in which case I'm lost.

    There are a dozen strings going out of EQ, I will mess them up.

    And by the way, when changes are made, how do I apply them?

    EDIT: I've made some adjustments, but only from Mixer and such, DSP is completely foreign for me.

    EDIT2: I wen ahead and dragged EQ outplut line to epilog's analog rear left and right, I guess its working now. Is this what you meant?

    I totally see the idea behind DSP. Its brilliant. Too bad that for such an audio newbie (Soundcards there just to make sound, etc) its a bit too difficult to comprehend.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2005
  18. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member

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    Yes, re-wiring is necessary, but not difficult.
    In this case trace the wires through the EQ to epilog, so that you can reconnect them to epilog after you remove the EQ connections.
    Then disonnect the connections to/from the EQ, and reconnect Surrounder to epilog (you connected the EQ yourself, right?, so that should not be difficult).
    Connect the top 2 connections coming out of xrouting to the EQ, and then connect the connections coming out of the EQ, to the top 2 connections of Surrounder.

    You do not need to do anything to apply the changes, but you might want to save the configuration, so that you can reload it when you need to (i.e. if you use other configurations).
     
  19. latuman

    latuman New Member

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    I guess its working, I did it a bit differently. I did not understand your instructions, but I simply dragged the 2 outputs from the EQ thingie to 4 locations in the epilog. Fronts and rears. Hope I didn't mess it up too bad.
     
  20. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member

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    I am not completely sure of your setup (but I have an idea based on your description), but you can do it that way as well, but most likely with that setup, Surrounder (Surround mode settings) is not really doing anything.

    I think my description would be more understandable if you started with the default DSP setup (but of course do what ever is easier for you).
     

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