A newbie guide on kX's (DSP) concept or "How to setup your DSP".

Discussion in 'Effects and the DSP' started by Lex Nahumury, Sep 11, 2004.

  1. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member

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  2. latuman

    latuman New Member

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    Well, I think I used the default. It seemed really difficult. Thanks for the help, now it works, but of course, understanding the DSP and making my own wiring would be nicer.

    Do you mean I could unload that Surrounder completely?
     
  3. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member

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    Again, I can only guess about your setup based on your description, but it sounds like you are not really using Surrounder if all the outputs are connected to the EQ (and I am guessing that the EQ is connected only to the front channels of Surrounder).

    The DSP window is not that difficult, you just need to get used to it. I would recommend saving your DSP setup, so that you can re-load it at another time, and then play around with the DSP window to get comfortable with it. If you hold the mouse cursor over the various connections, a tooltip will pop up with the name of that connection, so you can see (for example), which connections of Surrounder are used for which channels, etc. (ignore xrouting for now, as it can be confusing).

    BTW: Your setup is fine for what you are doing (if I am understanding it correctly), and has it's own advantages over the setup I recommended (my setup was for a more general use).
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2005
  4. latuman

    latuman New Member

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    My setup was the absolute default.

    I now figured how to rewire without making a mess. Some connections allowed only one wire, and I just dragged from epilog to surrounded like it was previously on EQ. Then dragged the EQ between xrouting and Surrounder and works like a charm, I believe this is how you meant it.

    Also, I am going for absolute unmodified sound at the beginning. Are the default settings with kX drivers like that? No EQ:s or other weird stuff like with Creative's drivers?

    I see Reverb Lite and Stereo Chorus hanging in DSP, are those useful?

    So I just want to have the sound _exactly_ like the person who mixed the album intended it to, and from there I start to build my own EQ for my speakers (which by the way sound horrible without EQ:ing some middle frequencies off).
     
  5. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member

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    That sounds about right. If you do not want reverb or chorus, then you can unload those plugins and FxMix2.

    For a bare minimum setup (for listening to music), you could start with a blank DSP, and then the following.
    Load a ProFx src plugin, set to FxBus(0/1).
    Connect that to your EQ's input.
    Connect your EQ's output to the front and rear connections of epilog.

    Very basic (only 3 plugins), but functional for your music listening purposes.

    (BTW: If you want to connect only 1 wire, hold down the ALT key when you make the connection)

    <edit>
    And NO, the default setup is not like that. The default setup includes some reverb and chorus and is designed as a general prupose setup (i.e. for games, music (including midi), surround sound (for movies, etc), and basic recording, all under the same general configuration. It is highly recommended to customize it for your own specific purposes, and save each custom DSP configuration so you can load different one's for different purposes. Starting with a very basic one, like I described here, will help to better understand what is going on in the DSP (as xrouting and Surrounder, etc. can be confusing). You cannot hurt anything by playing around with the DSP routing, and trying different plugins, etc, so play around, and soon you will understand how it works (you can always reintialize the DSP, or load a saved config to get it back to the way it was).
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2005
  6. latuman

    latuman New Member

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    Thanks for the help!

    I'll see what I'll do. I do play some games though... kX still under my reviewing eye. Time will tell if I stick with it, but sounds promising.
     
  7. latuman

    latuman New Member

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    I'm back again.

    I cannot comprehend the DSP, I'm sorry. Now I'm trying to get this thing to record through the Mic.

    So I use logic and drag Mic Left and Mic Right from "prolog" to "epilogs" RecR and RecL, I figured those where the right ones. Obviouslly not. Its not recording anything.
     
  8. latuman

    latuman New Member

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    mm. I went to mixer and put everything on, so now it works. I guess the mixer is more appropriate tool for me :/
     
  9. Maddogg6

    Maddogg6 Tail Razer

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    Dont be affraid of making mistake in the DSP screen - I make em all the time--- just right click and 're-initialize DSP' to get back to start...

    Then save settings on ones that do work. It takes alittle time but well worth the learning experience - thats my $.0000002 worth (Inflation makes my comments worth less and less these days)
     
  10. latuman

    latuman New Member

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    Been twinkering around with DSP, but the whole concept of it just does not fit my brain.

    I'm trying to use Line-In to record some vinyls to my computer. So I exactly do WHAT?

    I got Audigy Player. I'm testing the Line-In by putting a Mic to it. Mic in its Mic connector worked fine (after a long and exhausting fight) but this does not.

    Can a mic actually work on LineIn anyway?

    I even went hardcore and unmuted everything in the kX Mixer (which I can undestand, just) but no results. I'm checking the recording volume with GoldWave and Audacity. Both flatline. I plug the mic in Mic input and I get the goods, but not in line-in.

    So I check out this prolog thingamajig in the DSP. That should control the inputs? Now, how the hell do I figure out which line is actually Line-In? All inputs are connected to "epilog" thingie, and the connectors are labeled as some "ASIO" ones. And also to xrouting thingie, with some "in" connectors. I have no idea what these connectors are or how should things be. Baffled.

    I just want to record sound with Line-In and Mic. How do I tell kX drivers to record from Line-In and NOT microphone? Tried connecting everything to something but Audacity shows flat signal. The effect of fiddling should be instantaneous, right?

    Dang. Why cant the thingies be labeled as "This records" and "this plays" and have buttons to work :/.

    Also, in addition to this prolog, which SHOULD record sound, I also got FXBus, which I think does the same dang thing?

    I really need help. I really need to rescue some old records, and we are talking vinyl singles like "San Francisco" from Scott McKenzie, etc :(
     
  11. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member

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    @latuman

    What version of kX are you using?
    What do you want to use for recording (ASIO or MME)?

    The default DSP setup is not the best for custom recording.
    Additionally, I am not sure that plugging the MIC into line_in would work, as the line_in does not have an amp. It expects the signal to be line level.
    FxBus and Prolog are not the same thing. FxBus contains the software inputs, while Prolog contains the hardware inputs.
    The top 2 outputs of Prolog are the AC97 inputs (AC97 into the DSP). AC97 contains both the mic and line_in, which one, will depend on how you set up AC97 in kxmixer (you select which AC97 source you want to use in the dropdown box on the AC97 page of kX mixer). Any sliders in kX mixer labeled AC97 will effect both (depending on which one is selected), as they are both part of AC97.
    Using both the MIC and Line_In at the same tme has its limits (both would be mono). To do this, your best bet is to use the ProFx ADC/AC97 plugin (which BTW: eliminates the need to manually change the kx mixer settings, as the plugin does it for you (i.e. you can change settings using the plugin's GUI instead of kx mixer)).
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2006
  12. latuman

    latuman New Member

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    I think this is the latest one. I dont know the difference between ASIO and MME. I use dBPowerAmps aux input to rip my vinyls, and perhaps Goldwave and Audacity.

    I kinda thought that too

    Well, vinyls really must be stereo. I have no trouble clicking Line-In for recording. So if I want Line-In with stereo, I just select it and use the two first inputs in prolog and drag them to... somewhere :/

    EDIT: They're now dragged to "in0" and "in1" in xrouting and "asio0" and "asio1" in epilog.

    I'll wait for the amp to arrive in a second and try amplified signal
     
  13. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member

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    ASIO is for low latency recording, best for live setups/recording. MME is the standard Windows recording interface, which has higher latency times, but may be a better choice if you need to record in different formats (formats other than 16 Bit / 48 kHz).

    3538i is the latest version, but unfortunatley the newest version of ProFx is not yet available for this version (and the version that comes with 3538i has some bugs), I would skip xrouting all-together, and connect the top 2 Prolog connections directly to epilog (RecL/RecR for MME recording, or any 2 ASIO connections for ASIO recording).

    You might take a look at the following post:
    http://www.driverheaven.net/showpost.php?p=665005&postcount=2
    It is about setting up the MIC for use with Teamspeak, but it includes an explanation of how the various sliders in kxmixer effect it (line in would be very similair) when connected directly to epilog (for MME recording).

    Also, as you understand more about how it works with kX, you may want to take another look at the guide, and some of the example setups posted by other users, and maybe it will make more sense to you. Maybe someone else can offer a more optimal setup for what you are doing (transferring vinyl recordings to some other medium).
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2006
  14. latuman

    latuman New Member

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    Got the sound. I think it's fine now. For some reason I THINK goldwave records it at some decent level but all volume level meters in dbpa show really quiet sound. I dont know if this is a problem.

    I would also like to hear what I record as it goes on. Any easy way to wire it straight to my speakers too?

    EDIT: Yes, it is quieter than my other MP3 files. Is there any remedy, or is it just how Vinyl is? The volume knob on my amp does not do a thing
     
  15. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member

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    If you want to hear what you record, you can just unmute the Line_In slider on the AC97 page, and the dry signal will be present on your front speakers. Optionally you can use one of the mixer plugins (like MX6, which has monitoring ability... I think that is what most people do), I personally have not used them much myself, so I cannot offer an optimal setup for that, but I am sure someone else can (I usually just montor it from the recording software itself).

    <edit>
    Connect a Peak plugin to the Prolog ouputs so you can see the signal level, and then use the recording Gain slider (on the AC97 page) in kxmixer to tweak it to your desired level.

    BTW: I am not an expert on this, many people here in the forum have way more experiance with recording then I do. My hope is to just get you started, and to try and help explain how it works with kX, but someone else should be able to offer a better setup and maybe some tips.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2006
  16. latuman

    latuman New Member

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    Unmuted, cant hear a thing.

    Should I drag something from prolog to epilog?
     
  17. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member

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    Hmm, that is strange (what is you speaker setup (i.e. Digital or Analog)? I think that only works with Analog Front).
    You can connect it directly to your speakers on epilog (as well as the recording inputs) if you want.
    Just connect it to whatever pair of speakers you want to use for monitoring (i.e. Analog Front Left/Right or Analog Rear Left/Right, etc). Just remember that the volume will be different from the recording volume (i.e it is effected by the Master Volume, and individual channel volumes in kxmixer).

    BTW: The default setup (with it connected to xrouting) is setup so that you can hear what you record. So you may want to go back to the default setup (until someone offers a better one), but you will have to also adjust the AC97 slider on the Recording page of kxmixer if you do so. (again, using one of the mixer plugins and a custom DSP setup would proabably be the best choice, I am just not familair with such a setup (i.e. using the mixer plugins), so I cannot recommend anything in particulair).
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2006
  18. latuman

    latuman New Member

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    Fixed. Didn't work for some reason, tried again unmuting, and voila.
     
  19. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member

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    Ok good.
    Make sure that the 'AC97' slider on the 'Recording' page is muted when using a custom setup (i.e. Prolog directly connected to the recording inputs of epilog).

    i.e.
    With the default DSP setup, the AC97 signal is taken directly inside of epilog (using the settings from the 'Recording' page of kxmixer). Prolog, when used under this setup is used more for monitoring the signal and is not used for recording. This can make it more confusing, especially if you want to filter the signal (or add effects that you want recorded, etc). That is one of the reasons why I said that it is not the best setup for recording (although it may be OK for what you are doing). I personally prefer to wire it all up myself, so that I know exactly what is going on (in which case, (again) make sure that the AC97 slider on the Recording page of kxmixer is muted, otherwise a second copy of the signal will be mixed in (the one from Prolog, and the one taken inside of epilog)).

    <edit>
    BTW: Occasionally, something might cause the AC97 settings in the mixer to get out of sync with the settings the driver is using, so if you notice odd behavoir, you might try clicking the 'Reset AC97' button and see if that fixes it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2006
  20. ruight50

    ruight50 New Member

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    good, man!
     

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