Adobe Audition 2.0 how do I mix down tracks to a single file?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by eljorgep, Feb 20, 2008.

  1. eljorgep

    eljorgep New Member

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    I have recently learned to setup my DSP to interact with Audition. All the ASIO tracks are routed through FX buss to MX6 with additional fx's such as reverv, and output to epilog. Great, sounds good, everything is there, the right mix is delivered to the speakers. Question: How do I get that exact sound to a wav file as well? With Audition 1.5 or Cool Edit There was an option to mix down to a file including all the fx's, volume, pans, etc. Problem was these versions were not ASIO aware and did not even talk to the DSP in my Live 5.1; unfortunately, I had to rely completly on the buil-in fx's which brought my CPU to a crawl and therefore was not able to monitor the mix in real time. If I can find an answer to my dilema I'll be able to complete my project without resourcing to another app such as Sonar.
     
  2. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member

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    I do not know anything about Adobe Audition, but if you are getting the mix you want to your speakers, then one option is to find the connection to your speakers in the DSP, and also connect it (whatever plugin is feeding the speakers (MX6? in your config)) to another ASIO connection of epilog to record using ASIO, or to the REC pins of epilog to record using Windows (MME).
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2008
  3. Maddogg6

    Maddogg6 Tail Razer

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    2 possible ways -
    1) software bounce to a single track (can be faster than realtime, if Audition has such a feature, but kX effects will not record)
    2) realtime record of all tracks enabled for playback (this is the only way to record kX DSP effects)

    ASIO aware makes no difference - recording kX effects *have* to be done in realtime - the only effects than can be bounced - or mixed down with software are VST/DX based effects or synths.
    So even using ASIO - you still have to record kX effects in realitime.
    To do this - simply drag connections from MX6's record out pins to Epilogs ASIO Input pins (any 2 should work - just select the correct ASIO input to record in Audition)

    If NOT using ASIO - drag the record out of MX6 to the REC in pins on Epilog.

    Then enable record in MX6 for the track(s) you want to be sent out those record pins of MX6 - and thus recorded.

    edit : or what russ said... /edit

    Hope that makes sense...
     
  4. eljorgep

    eljorgep New Member

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    Thanks MD6 and Russ. Both solutions are totally acceptable. To record DSP effects they have to be done in real time and that's precicely what I want to do. But, either using the ASIO or Rec in Epilog, do I use a second application to capture (record) what I hear going to my speakers? Is there a plug-in that does that? What I don't want to do is use VST/DX effects from Audition. That almost totally defeats the purpose of having an on-board DSP, right?
     
  5. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member

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    For recording the mix, real time recording is not really necessary, so it would probably be better to use MME for the recording. Again, I am not familair with Audition, but you should be able to do the recording there... I assume that it allows you to record new tracks while it plays back other tracks that are already recorded (i.e. so you could play along with it)... If so, then it would just be a matter of connecting whichever plugin is feeding your speakers to the REC pins of epilog, set Audition to record using kX Wave 0/1, and arm the track for recording (do not monitor the recording or you will create a loop), and start recording as you normally would (when playing along with other tracks).

    Does that make sense to you?
     
  6. Maddogg6

    Maddogg6 Tail Razer

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    That could be confusing....
    For *recording* kX DSP effects - yes, it is necessary to record them in realtime, weather in MME or ASIO. You could simply apply kX DSP effects to a dry mix (software mixdown) of multiple tracks - but that may not be desired... ??

    Also - if connecting MX6 to a physical output on Epilog (ie Analog front out) - this is essentially 'hardware monitoring' - and no need to set any track params in audition for 'monitoring' (actually - you can't use 'software monitoring, typically is a switch on a track, and to do so would make a feedback loop). If you *need* software monitoring - turn off the 'M'onitor in MX6 to prevent the loop.

    It would help if you confirm if you are using ASIO or MME... then more precise info can be given and not need to give multiple cases...

    also - if you could indicate how you are sending from Audition to the kX effect - ie.. do you have a send effect configured in Audition applying the kX effect - or are you using a send in MX6?
    And how are you monitoring with the kX effect... can you post a pic of your DSP config?

    I ask because if you have a send in audition configured - you may need to modify how you record them...
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2008
  7. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member

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    By real-time, I mean where latency is an issue (i.e. you play a note on some instrument, and you hear the note with the effects applied almost instantly). When re-recording something already recorded, adding only DSP effects, latency is not an issue (unless you are trying to modulate those effects in real-time, etc.)

    My understanding is that the OP is adding some DSP effects to the resulting mix (not individual tracks), otherwise they would have been recorded in the first place, and as such real-time is not necessary.

    i.e.
    Like adding reverb to the playback of an mp3, and recording the result. Latency would not be an issue.

    BTW: I understand that the OP also wants to know how to go about recording DSP effects in real-time as well, but of course that can be more complicated depending on what the source audio is, and where/when he want the effects to be applied, etc. (i.e. more info needed)
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2008
  8. eljorgep

    eljorgep New Member

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    Again, thanx Maddog6 and Russ for bearing with me. I really appreciate it. Maybe I should explain my scenario further. I am trying to mix down tracks already laid down on a previous version of Audition to a wav file for each song --I am not adding any live instruments or vocal, just mixing what's already recorded. These tracks are totally dry but some have some EQ on. In Audition I have the choise to send each individual track to either the master, a bus (for sharing VST/directx fx's among tracks) or to external busses (i.e. an external mixing console) but in my case to 8 pairs mapped to the corresponding ASIO inputs of my DSP where FXbus is at the front end. Of course I could stay totally within the Audition realm and instead of using ASIO drivers choose Audition Windows drivers and export the whole session (VST fx's included) to a wav file. But like I mentiond in an earlier post, if I add VST or directx fx's to individual instruments or busses (i. e. reverv to the drums, faser to the guitar, chorus to the vocals, etc) I can not totally monitor the entire mix since they slow my system down so much that it simply cannot keep up.
    On the other hand, taking advantage of the built in fx's in the DSP will liberate my CPU thus allowing me to monior the full mix. Rigged to the MX6 input pair 6 I'm using a lite reverv plug-in which takes its inputs from the sends of the other 5 pairs (for now, it'll grow from here).
    The main outputs of the MX6 are connected to to the epilog's front speakers output.
    I have taken you guys' advice, send the record outputs of the MX6 to epilog's Rec In pins or ASIO pins. **** THIS IS WHERE THE WAV FILE NEEDS TO BE PICKED UP **** Who or what will do this? Another application perhaps? Another instance of Audition? What's your reckon my friends?
     
  9. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member

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    As I said previously, you should be able to do the recording in Audition (same instance of Audition). However, since it appears that you are using more than one ASIO output pair in Audition, you will probably have to use ASIO to record the mix as well (since usually you can only use ASIO or MME, not both at the same time within the same program).

    i.e.
    Connect MX6's REC output to any unused ASIO pair on epilog (make sure that the 'R' buttons are enabled in MX6 for each channel that you want to send to the Record outputs (or just use the Main outputs)).
    Add a new track in Audition, armed to record from the above ASIO pair.
    Record the new track (with the previous tracks set for playback), without software monitoring enabled for that track.

    i.e. (regarding recording in Audition)
    Record it the same way that you would if you were adding another instrument or vocal track.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2008
  10. Maddogg6

    Maddogg6 Tail Razer

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    If you are still having problems - try this... so we can all talk the same language (kX DSP config-wise) and I think it *may* help with your PC's resource use as well...(but, also depends on Auditions mixing algo efficiency - which depends on PC's CPU/resources)

    Note: Functionally what I say here will be the same as what you described, but your asking is a kin to 'how do I make a robot with an erector set?' - theres several ways, this way I believe to be more efficient for a few reasons... (kX mixes, your described way -vs- Audition mixes, my described way below.)

    1) if you decide to remix that project later, unless you save a kX DSP config for each and every project and every mix version - you will likely have troubles getting back to where you were before. This way I show will store all mixing and effect send levels in the Audition project file... much more convenient for managing.
    2) Reducing the use of ASIO channels will save PC resources as it makes sense that less ASIO activity = less PC resource use. Your described way is using 8 ASIO out channels, this way uses only 2 (or 3 if you want to use chorus as well). But, if Auditions mixing algos suck... this could be a wrong assumption on my part. ??
    3) we start off with a known simple kX DSP config and is least confusing to speak about kX here. We are not the Adobe Audition support group - no one here seems to be intimate with that.
    4) it demonstrates how you can accomplish very similar tasks in multiple ways in a DAW app and kX DSP - or the combination - but this simplifies kX DSP and assumes you are more proficient in Audition.
    /Note


    Construct this DSP - AFTER you save the one you are currently using... (click on the Disc icon on the right side of kX DSP config applet...
    [​IMG]
    MX6 Main out to what ever you are using to MONITOR (shown connected for Front Analog oututput) on Epilog.
    MX6 Record out to epilogs ASIO 0/1 input.
    You can adjust the reverb and chorus effect arams later when audition has been configured.

    Then..In audition...

    First - set all tracks in Audition to use a MASTER buss. Make the master buss' output to use 'kX ASIO 0/1'

    Then, set up a SEND buss to use as an effect send in Audition - have that OUTPUT to kX ASIO 14/15 (reverb) - you can add another Send Buss that uses kX ASIO 12/13 for a chorus send effect too. Add this send buss to all tracks in Audition that you want to use the above effect(s) on.

    Do not worry about a RETURN for those send effects, leave it blank, or assign it to kX ASIO 2/3 (an un used ASIO input pair of Epilog) - we dont want, nor need to have audition deal with the RETURNs from these sends - kX will handle it - it avoids needing to use any software monitoring and thus, we save on latency and resources this way.

    Adjust tracks, master and send levels for all tracks and buss' in Audition to taste.

    Add a new track in Audition - arm it to record ASIO 0/1 - disable any software monitoring on that track.

    Playback entire project while recording its playback - this new recording will include kX effects applied to all tracks.

    To export - choose to export that new track all by its self to a wave file (or what ever) - no mixdown is needed - as we just did that when we recorded it in the last step.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2008
  11. eljorgep

    eljorgep New Member

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    Thanx a million you guys! Since you both concur that I can use a new stereo track in Audition and record from Epilog's ASIO 0/1 while playing back the other tracks with added fx's and not do software monitoring on the new one, then I can bet that's the logical solution. I don't doubt it at all. I will need a little time to experiment, but that's it, that's the answer. In fact, this setup would work with any DAW app especially for those who prefer to use external mixers atached to monster racks of hardware effects.
    Gracias amigos. I will post a message with the results and opinions as soon as I can.
     

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