Another Shooting...Another Death: At CNN Headquarters

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Forum' started by Dyre Straits, Apr 3, 2007.

  1. Dowaco

    Dowaco New Member

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    Whoa. At what point do you become the giver of knowledge that others can benefit from?
    Who is saying that mistakes have been made? We cannot have 24 hour surveillance of everyone in the world to make sure they don't do something stupid. Being an adult means you make your own choices. Tougher choices than when you were a child. It means choosing who to listen to and who to tune out.
    You seem to be implying that someone out there has got it all right and we should listen to them. That is like being a child and letting someone take care of you, not being an independent adult who thinks for themselves. In the US, we do not like the government intruding into our lives because it is surrendering freedom. Living in a cocoon might be OK for some but it is not the mindset of the average American.

    Edit: It is 1:35 AM here. I am off to bed. I will check back in the morning.
     
  2. >GSXR<mrbusa

    >GSXR<mrbusa MY BIKE vvv

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    That's just it, we do not want your type of government. You guys have been controlled your whole lives and do not know any better. Control is not an answer in this country. I truly believe that your real issue is that you hate everything about the USA and you make your judgment based off of what the media lets you hear. It would be like me judging you after seeing a hundred reality shows that air the stupid drunken brawls after every soccer match.

    EDIT: Ya the constant fear of gun crimes and lunatics is crazy man. I have to duck for cover every time I step outside. LOL... Control freaks are the true issue from government to these murders we are talking about. Government loves to control the people and the shooter can't cope because he lost control. I'll bet you understand that mentality. LOL
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2007
  3. Teme

    Teme Super Moderator

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    Well well police is getting some crap from how they handled the situation ...
     
  4. Dyre Straits

    Dyre Straits 10 Grandkids -2 Great-grandsons

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    Actually, the survivors are criticizing the school authorities for not sending out an immediate notice via some kind of alarm or intercom alert. I've been watching the updates over the past few hours and it seems they thought at first it was an isolated domestic problem in the dorms.

    It seems to me that, maybe, the gunman in this case did that as a decoy to get the authorities off the track of what his real intentions were.

    The whole thing, though, is sickening. Just a maniac bent on causing the worst kind of mayhem.
     
  5. Teme

    Teme Super Moderator

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    Ok, thanks dyre... I've learned that there is one student from here and he/she is ok. :)

    btw. any info what kind of weapon that gun man used?? SMG or normal automatic pistol?
     
  6. Sandok

    Sandok New Member

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    We have knowledge... Everyone does and learning from others mistakes and others principales is something everyone should do. You learn from other people's wins and losses (you do it in economics, in military (Afghanistan and Russians) so why not in society?)

    You don't want the gov to be involved in your life yet you have such things like the Patriot Act that do exactly that? That's hypocrisy at its finest.

    And if ever, living in Switzerland and India and the US, the most free of all the countries for me was India and in between Switzerland and the US, I don't feel any difference (cept for safety and quality I guess...)

    Our goverment is run by the Swiss and they do nothing... We aren't part of the EU, etc. We have as much freedom and liberty as the US and seeing as you've never probably come here, I doubt you'd know my countries "kind of goverment".

    I have LIVED in the US and I don't hate it (otherwise I'd boycott american products, food, music, etc... Yet I don't :uhoh: ) but after hearing you guys (I'd really love to know which states some of you guys are from, just out of curiosity) I do get a general idea of what your gun arguments are... No? As for the soccer drunk matches, you might be referring to England? :lol:

    What control do you think the goverement has here? I can drink at 16, go clubbing at 18 and do anything the US offers (except maybe buy an M16 with any license or verification). I'm allowed to critize the goverment, dislike the major corporations if I want and I'm even allowed to take a leak behind a tree (which can not always be the case in the US). The Swiss constitutions is based off the French one which, if you know, is based off the American one given that France helped you gain independance. Please check up your facts before even trying to be remotely cynincal.
     
  7. Dyre Straits

    Dyre Straits 10 Grandkids -2 Great-grandsons

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    So far, they're not saying what actual type of weapon was used other than the fact that he used two 'handguns' and had lots of ammo clips. We should know today or very soon for sure.

    EDIT: OK, they are saying they were 9 mm handguns. Probably Glocks.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2007
  8. Teme

    Teme Super Moderator

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    Ok, so he could get the easily... I was thinking SMG's because the amount of people getting shot at..
     
  9. Dowaco

    Dowaco New Member

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    You cannot compare what works in India or Switzerland to what might work in the US.
    India is made up of people from all the same race and color and they share a common language. Switzerland is even more homogeneous. The US is truly a melting pot of cultures, languages, colors, religions, and economic classes. Like it or not people who have difference will have more problems than people who feel they are from the same "tribe".

    I was born in New York state and live in New Jersey, BTW. I cannot imagine how that helps you understand me though. Stereotypes are a dangerous way to relate to a group of 300 million people. If I said I was from Texas would that make me a gunslinger? or if I was from San Fransisco, would that make me gay?

    In general, Europeans seem more socialistic and are content to have the government take care of them. America was founded by rebellious religious fanatics looking to get away from that, just over 200 years ago.
     
  10. Asmoday

    Asmoday Demonic

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    Just a little factoid taken from the CIA factbook: "English enjoys associate status but is the most important language for national, political, and commercial communication; Hindi is the national language and primary tongue of 30% of the people; there are 14 other official languages: Bengali, Telugu, Marathi, Tamil, Urdu, Gujarati, Malayalam, Kannada, Oriya, Punjabi, Assamese, Kashmiri, Sindhi, and Sanskrit; Hindustani is a popular variant of Hindi/Urdu spoken widely throughout northern India but is not an official language "
    The national tongue is only the primary language to 30% of the population...

    I'm no expert on India, that would be Sandok since he originates from there, but the part of being a melting pot of cultures, languages, religions and classes I'd say that India is just that.
     
  11. Teme

    Teme Super Moderator

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    And remember that Indian people learned to live as one when they were under British rule.
     
  12. >GSXR<mrbusa

    >GSXR<mrbusa MY BIKE vvv

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    I knew exactly what type of response I was going to get out of you. We all know that you are intelligent and have an opinion, thats not the problem. The problem is that you are a judgmental ego maniac. Seeing how I am just a gun toting lunatic that is ready to kill someone on the drop of a hat there really is no reason for me to argue with you. I could use this wasted time to go count my bullets and get ready for my next random shooting. When I get done counting my bullets I have a kkk meeting to go to. By the way, the French didn't help me gain anything, they helped some inbreed control freaks that were the true murderers of this land. This country was founded by murder. Murder is a sport to us Americans like breeding is to India.
     
  13. Sandok

    Sandok New Member

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    I think what Asmonday wrote about india is pretty decent... India is a mix of a billion of people from more religions, social groups and nationalities than you could ever imagine. And as for Switzerland being homogeneous, that's a nice one ;) Did you know that if it wasn't for the immigrants (a good 30% of the country's population), the Swiss population would decline from year to year? Nobody here is a pure Swiss, given that French, Germans, Austrians, Italians all live here too. We are the center of Europe and that didn't allow us to stay homogeneous at all.

    And yes Sterotypes are dangerous but GSXR and you seems to do, as do many other people and in a way, it's one of the few comparable ways to argue. And anyways, from what all the US guys have said so far, you all have a same general message so I could stereotype a bit no, seeing as you're all saying the same things?

    We are in general more socilaistic (stereotype?) and yet, you know nothing about Switzerland, a country that's mostly center-right, as is germany, france, uk surely, etc. And again, the goverement doesn't take care of us more than the USA, cept when it comes to safety I guess we're better off but again, 911 has seen the creation of Guantanamo, Patriot Act, etc. I find you guys now have less freedoms than me personally. If I'm wrong, do tell me ONE thing you can do that I can't here?

    I'm not here to flame mate, or make racists comments. If you don't wish to debate, show facts or do anything constructive, the FWZ is for you.
     
  14. Dyre Straits

    Dyre Straits 10 Grandkids -2 Great-grandsons

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    They are revealing much more information: One lone killer, two handguns.

    I was correct about one of the guns being a Glock. The other was a .22 calibre pistol.

    This guy was South Korean (correction from earlier post), came to the U.S. as a boy in 1992. He was an English major in his Senior Year at this University. In a Creative Writing class his writings were so disturbing that he'd been referred to the school's counselor. From what they're saying, he'd been under some kind of watch because of how disturbing his writings were.

    Sounds like a really messed up dude.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2007
  15. Teme

    Teme Super Moderator

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    Yeah it sounds... But where he got those guns?!?!?! :hmm: :hmm:
     
  16. SFOSOK

    SFOSOK 939 Goin Strong

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    Does it really matter where he got them? 9mm and .22 cal pistols are very common.

    .22 and 9mm are relatively small rounds so those guns would be easier to find then lets say a .44 or .45 caliber pistol.


    This is not about the guns people, this is about the person.


    @ Sandok: I also find it absolutely hilarious that you say how America isn't as free as lets say India or Switzerland and then you turn around to say that we should start banning guns. Because you know, prohibition is about as free as we can get and a step in the right direction :rolleyes:. America is not free because of people like you.

    Hell, while we are on that road. Lets ban guns, cigars, knives, heart attacks, cancer, sharks, car accidents and what ever else attributes to death in a country.





    Its about the people, not the weapon. Hell fishing wire and piano wire can be used to strangle someone and those aren't banned. I'm sure if guns were prohibited then mentally disturbed or depressed people will move to other things.

    The only way to truelly hinder and stop this horrible sh*t from happening is to educate people instead of desensitize them.


    If we follow the "ban all weapons" road then this country sure as hell won't be free anymore. Once the guns, knives, swords and pointy objects are gone they will need to blame something on the muder suicides. Pretty soon kids will just drive down the street hitting anyone they can. Lets see, GTA, there you go. It was video games all along (sarcasm):eek:.


    We haven't even scratched the surface either. What about explosives? Do you know how easy it is to make a large scale explosion from household items? I didn't think so. This cycle will not end with the banning of guns and in truth will never end. Banning weapons is a quick fix that further limits our freedoms because another crazy person decided to abuse it.




    Stop looking at the surface and start looking at what actually cause these people to kill others and themselves.
     
  17. Dowaco

    Dowaco New Member

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    Guantanamo and the patriot act ARE for keeping the citizens safe. There is always a trade-off between safety and freedom. On one hand you advocate taking away the right to bear arms and on the other hand denounce the taking of rights of terrorists and suspected terrorists. It sounds like you are saying we should have freedom for criminals but not for law abiding citizens.

    I will concede I made a bad analogy with India but the murder rate there (rank 26) is very comparable to the US (rank 24) so maybe being wrong about the population mix makes my argument about diverse culture begetting violence all the more compelling.
    data from here:
    http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita
    If you look at this list there are many countries with stricter gun control than the US who have far higher murder rates. South Africa for example has stricter laws. Brazil is not on the list for some reason but the murder rate there is several times the US rate of 4 per hundred thousand and nobody except police can even own a gun.

    Switzerland looks like a nice place to live, But everyone there is white. Maybe you could open your arms to a few million Koreans, Latinos and blacks to have a richer cultural mix.
     
  18. Sandok

    Sandok New Member

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    And yet this doesn't seem strange to you? I'm really arguing with a brick wall aren't I?


    SFOSK, do you read my posts or is there some "other" Sandok that you're talking about? I have and I repeat not said "ban all guns" just said, stricter enforcement of how to buy a gun, their circulation, etc. We aren't prohibited in any way in CH, we can buy a gun if we want, it's just not as stupidly easy as walking into a gun store and saying, "Give me that one please".

    So again, don't please even debate when you obviously don't read my posts, don't know about my country as much as I know about yours and all, it's just a waste. My country is still just as free, if not more, than your country. :rolleyes:

    Yes you can kill someone with your bare hands, but do you HONESTLY think 32 people would be dead in Virginia Tech if the killer used his hands?

    Taking others for idiots isn't a great way to argue you know...

    And again, if you had read my posts before the beginning instead of just "guessing" what I've said, you'd know I don't think banning works because ffs, my country has tons of guns in circulation yet we somehow don't end up with so many deaths and no school shooting has ever happened yet. Now is this because the Swiss are generally kinder than Americans, we have less mentally unstable people, we aren't as fat or is it most probably because guns are strictly monitored and not as easy to acquire when we want to go kill people? :rolleyes:

    OKAY ONCE AND FOR ALL, I DON'T ADVOCATE THE RIGHT TO TAKE AWAY GUNS FROM A COUNTRY. I DON'T THINK YOU GUYS NEED TO BAN GUNS.

    Maybe now you'll stop arguing a point I haven't even made.

    And again, that seems to me like a loss of freedom and quite inhuman nonetheless and anticonstitutional but what do I know? And everyone (EVERYONE) has the right to the same laws no?

    But you see, I have always compared to Switzerland, France, Germany and England (among others) because they are all DEVELOPED first world countries. India, Brazil, South Africa are all devoping countries and it's wrong to compare them, unless you classify the US in the same catergory.

    You think everyone who is Swiss is white? I'm not white for example... :rofl: :lol: We have thousands of Sri-Lankans, Serbes, Croates, Chinese (Hong Kong), Pakistanies, etc. We are very mixed and pelase stop assuming we aren't because you've never set foot here. If ever though, Latino people are conisdered "white" no? Or is there a new classification for them?
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2007
  19. SFOSOK

    SFOSOK 939 Goin Strong

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    More would be dead if he used a bomb or series of them.


    Ahh, so I guess in America I can just walk into a gun store and say I'll take that one sir and its just that easy. :rofl:


    I take it you have never been in a gun store in the US. Minimum age to purchase a pistol is 21 (which is what is mostly used in shootings) with a lengthy background check and your firearm is registered under your name with the US gov. In fact I think it took about a week to clear the paperwork for any of the people I know to purchase their sidearms. Also isn't it funny that in most school shooting (excluding college) the kids are using weapons they didn't buy but took from their parents?


    Your saying our gun laws should be more strict. Well, can you even tell me the gun laws we have in place?

    If you can not you can't just assume the gun laws are at fault for school shootings or at least the number killed during them.



    What I'm saying is its more important to educate about gun safety then it is about restricting the weapons themselves.
     
  20. Sandok

    Sandok New Member

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    I'll admit, I've never been in a gunshop to buy a gun in the US but I know more than enough about your laws and regulations (you know, the internet and books and friends are a wealth of knowledge).

    And that's exactly what I mean with the part where you say the kids use their parents guns. In Switzerland, you can be prosecuted for keeping a gun outside of a safety briefcase with a passcode and keeping the ammunitions in a unhidden spot because we care about young kids not getting hold of their folks' guns. Hell, that's made has have... Hmmm... 0 gun school shootings ever. And what about you?

    Yeah of course you should educate but apparently that isn't working out great is it? I just don't get the fact that a country with a similar amount of guns has no gun crime and yet, you don't want to adopt a similar working system where we haven't lost our right to have guns in our homes? Oh well, again, apparently I banging my head against a brick wall, none of us will budge now will we?
     

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