Another Shooting...Another Death: At CNN Headquarters

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Forum' started by Dyre Straits, Apr 3, 2007.

  1. cozumel

    cozumel I'm dangerous but cute...

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    The Korean who killed in Virginia was admitted to mental health facility inside the last couple of years following intervention by the police. He was still allowed to purchase a gun and ammunition last month. No check on his mental health were made. All he was required to do was tick the 'No' box stating he didn't suffer from mental health.
     
  2. Calinerti

    Calinerti New Member

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  3. cozumel

    cozumel I'm dangerous but cute...

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    Correct Calinerti, I am not talking about mentally ill ten year old children. I'm talking about adults or maybe teenagers over 14 who live in a house. If my neighbors 22yr old son had diagnosis of personality disorder and schizophrenia then I would not want any firearms (pistols, semi-automatics, machine guns, revolvers - ie nothing) in that house in case it got into the wrong hands.
    To re-iterate for clarity:
    Any household that has someone diagnosed with an enduring mental health illness or history of violence criminal activity (however long ago)should be assessed by federal authorities on a risk matrix system for suitability. If any one member of that household fail the matrix no-one in the property can receive a permit to own or purchase a firearm unless they move out. It would reduces the chances of an incident similar to Virginia Tech happening again.
     
  4. mike2h

    mike2h New Member

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    wrong. he had the receipt for the glock & ammo.
    & i dont think that is what cozumel had in mind. his basic idea is good imo.
     
  5. OmegaRED

    OmegaRED Relapsed Gamer

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    Ya I had read he had the receipt and bought one of the guns a week ago, that shouldn't be possible for a guy in his mental state to do. I hate gun control debates but cmon, this is just ridiculous.
     
  6. Calinerti

    Calinerti New Member

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    Agreed. What do you think should be done?
     
  7. OmegaRED

    OmegaRED Relapsed Gamer

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    Uh how about people with mental history are NOT allowed to buy firearms or ammo?
     
  8. Dowaco

    Dowaco New Member

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    Sorry, I did not have that info when I posted last. I thought I saw in this thread where he got the guns from his folks, but looking back, it was a statistic not from this case. To tell the truth, I turn the channel when this story comes on because I cannot stand to listen to the inane media garbage.

    A background check should have been done, and he should not have been able to buy a gun. That's the problem with having laws that are not enforced, nuts slip through the cracks. Having more laws just creates a bigger bureaucracy and more cracks.
     
  9. Calinerti

    Calinerti New Member

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    Didnt you visit the website? The owners have left a note on there for everyone to read. A background check was done, apparantly. But according to Fox news his documented mental health record should have shown up. So how could he have bought a handgun?

    Dowaco said "We do not need new laws, just to enforce the ones we already have". I think thats a good start on a SOLUTION. Also he brings education up. Another good starting point. What else?
     
  10. Calinerti

    Calinerti New Member

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    I think thats already law. Yet here we are.

    (Just have to point out that my avatar and post count are in complete harmony)
     
  11. Teme

    Teme Super Moderator

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    I saw the interview of the guy who sold the 9mm gun to that kid and he said that he can sell if person buying one don't have criminal record. So it seems that it's not in Virginia ...

    But I think that it should be federal law that says if you have mental condition you can't buy guns or ammunition. And sellers must look it up in some database. They would only get green light when all is ok or red when they can't sell.

    That's just my thoughts ...
     
  12. Tinkerhell

    Tinkerhell Not all fairies are nice.

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    I've stayed away from this thread despite lots of flaws in many posts from both sides but I will clear up this one bit. The whole issue with mental health is this - the guy was deemed a possible harm to himself but not others, therefore his mental health records never resulted in a "tie in" to the criminal & background check. Basically you have to have been determined to be a possible threat to society in some manner - made threats to others, been a stalker, been violent towards others etc etc to result in your mental health records getting connected to a background check. Now, don't ask me why this guy was never deemed a threat to others, he sure as hell was and that should have resulted in him not being able to purchase a weapon.

    The main culprits in this whole terrible thing are this guys parents who should have known their child was not right in the head, the teachers & school admin that knew this guy was bat shit crazy ( I believe I've read where one of his instructors had made a statement to admin along the lines of "If you don't get rid of him I'm leaving") but didn't do anything about it, and the state legislators that made every college campus a free fire victim zone.

    I'm not going into great detail on anything here on my position - read the earlier posts from the last shooting if you want all of that; I'm tired of making my same arguments - suffice to say that gun bans don't work, and if law abiding citizens hadn't been disarmed on that campus there is a good chance that lives could have been saved.

    Here are a few recent odds & ends that have turne up for interesting reading:

    From Neil Boortz a US radio personality.

    And this regarding a town near me:

    Lastly I'll say go back & read some of my much earlier posts in this thread. There's some good reading there is your eyes & mind are open (sadly most anti-gunner's minds are not open...)

    And really lastly PLEASE!!! stop compaing Switzerland to the US - again see prior posts.

    Have a nice day gang.
    I'm off to the shooting range to get some practice in with my Walther P22 and my Glock 19. (and that's not a sick joke. Disturbingly I own the same two guns as this sick bastard did ((although I don't know what model .22 the guy used.)))

    :)
     
  13. Sandok

    Sandok New Member

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    Well if you don't read the posts correctly.... I don't think anyone EXCEPT the pro gun advocates are even talking about gun bans, so why do you guys keep on bringing this up?

    And I've compared to tons of countries, many similar to the US but hey, nobody reads it.

    Just I have to ask, why is the US the country with the highest gun crime and gun deaths and gun shootings out of all the developed First World countries? All these other rich powerful countries don't have guns and as a result have no Universtiy shootings, Colombines, etc but the US with it's guns does?

    Anyways, talk to a SINGLE non-american who is a progun advocate in a developed rich country and I'll stop posting in this thread because you won't find one. Hell, in Europe the Virginia Shootings have been all over the papers (well were) and everyone had one common opinion, I'll let you guess what. It's just not a fact of life that guns protect and help because an entire continent lives without them and we are better off when compared to gun crime/deaths/suicides so there has got to be SOME correlation? Or is it just made up statistics?
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2007
  14. Dowaco

    Dowaco New Member

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    Statistics don't have to be made up to be misleading. You cannot just compare two things and draw any conclusions. Likewise, you cannot pick only countries that have less gun violence than the US and attribute that to a single factor.

    http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=041907D
    describes shootings in Australia, Switzerland, Japan, and Brazil.

    The rate of gun crime in Brazil is one of highest in the world. And they have among the strictest gun control laws in the world. Certainly stricter than US laws. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3678624.stm

    When looking at the whole world, instead of just the US and Swizterland, a more logical conclusion is that there is NO correlation between gun control and gun violence.
     
  15. Sandok

    Sandok New Member

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    My god where don't you guys understand that comparing a DEVELOPED COUNTRY to a DEVELOPING COUNTRY is not the same?! Honestly, if you don't know the difference, google it or study geography and I dunno what else but come on, you've got to be kidding me. :rofl:

    Brazil is a poor, undeveloped country with a low GDP and a shoddy social system with the worst gangs in the world. America is a developed rich country with one of the highest GDPs and such. Compare to a country with similar charateristics (ENGLAND or FRANCE or GERMANY).

    And again, I don't give accounts of once in a lifetime events (shootings happen here, just every ten years instead of two months) but I give statistical facts that of course, if they don't fit with your point of view are misleading and faslisifed. Honestly, you guys seem to be avoiding or just plain old not understanding the basic and important parts of the debate, instead, focusing on things that I don't even bring up.

    Brazil and USA? Russia and USA? Please guys, compare your country to one of same deveoplment (and no, population doesn't count as development).

    And Dowaco, when looking at all of Europe (soo 800 million people, 15+ countries, etc), you can start to make a correlation. Hell Switzerland has a high gun crime rate, that's why I compare it to the US (and we have guns in our country) but if you want, I'll comapre to France (no guns almost and less gun crime) or Germany (no guns again and wow, almost no gun crime) or Lichenstein (no guns and wow, almost no gun crime too) or Austria, or Italy, or Spain, or Monaco, or England or Denmark, or Belgium... Come on, all these countries have harsh gun regulations (way way way more than Switzerland) and they have about half or less gun crime than my country (so about 30 times less than the US). With a large number of countries to compare to, you CAN make a correct correlation. These are all developed rich countries too if ever.
     
  16. mike2h

    mike2h New Member

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    you cant copmpare any other country to the us. america has the most diverse population in the world, period. while i am not blaming this on gun offenses, it is part of th e overall condition of this country, you combine that massive metling pot of different morals/religions/way of living/previous lifestyle/massive differences in wealth with an over ubundance of selfserving lawmakers & bad things are going to happen... along with many good things. cultural diversity is our blessing & bane. fn lawyers are just our bane.
     
  17. Dowaco

    Dowaco New Member

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    Having no guns means having no gun crime. OK I'll buy that, but its like saying there are no shark attacks in Switzerland. Why? wow, because there are no sharks.
    You accuse me of putting words in your mouth about gun bans, but use the argument that countries with no guns have less gun crime. So are you saying the US should have less guns? Because if you are, then that is banning guns. Something you say you are not advocating. If not, and you are saying that more laws will reduce violence then you are completely wrong. Laws do not change behavior especially when the ones you already have are not enforced properly anyway.

    What it sounds like to me is you are saying Americans are scum and you hate us and you will find any reason to knock the country. There is no comparator for the United States. It is a unique situation since there are no other superpowers to compare to. France or Germany is a comparable country? Lol, I thought you said you lived here.
     
  18. Calinerti

    Calinerti New Member

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    Nobody is calling anyone else "scum". You guys are so paranoid about people hating you. That isnt the case. Its often said "this is the greatest country in the world and thats why they hate us". Well, THEY dont think its the greatest country on earth... why should they dislike you? I've lived all over the world and haven't seen any evidence of it. A little off topic, I know....
     
  19. Sandok

    Sandok New Member

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    Just to say, technically, India or Malaysia have a more diverse melting pot and more religions and ethnic tribes and languages than the US will ever have. Just some info (though I'm comparing those countries to the US, just saying).

    So wait, if having no guns means no gun crime, you confirm the direct correlation that I've been trying to say. And yeah, of course if there are no sharks there won't be any shark deaths so what? I've started using countries with stricter gun laws (again, France, Germany, Austria don't ban guns at all, you can buy them there) because you dislike the Swiss comparaison (I know it's not the US, but I'm just comparing the gun aspects but none of you guys seem to appreciate that, saying everything but the gun aspect has to be taken into account).

    I've posted it in bold, in italic in I dunno what else saying the US should have STRICTER GUN RULES. Viriginia you can walk into a gun store with an ID and walk out with a gun for christs sake, that's most probably why the shooter had a gun in the first place. It's too easy for the poor and mentally ill to get one to kill (they are also quite cheap compared to here). And what proof apart from your opinion do you have of more laws not working? If it works in Europe, a huge continenent why wouldn't it work in the US? Any reason please? (and if ever, all of Europe is probably more diverse in total (nationalities, religions and all than the US so don't say it's not comparable).

    I gotta ask, have you ever even left the US and travelled? I'm not saying the US is scum and I'm not saying there is a PERFECT country to compare it to but if you think you're so much better than the rest of the superpowers in the world, then I'd really urge you to come to the "rest of the world" and check it out first. America is much worse than France or Germany in many aspects (better too of course).
     
  20. cozumel

    cozumel I'm dangerous but cute...

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    Dowaco:
    In Virginia just now that Korean went to a gun shop and 'self-declared' on a tick box that he had no mental health problems. Is that an example of having all the right laws. I think they need to be (at the very least tightened) to stop these loopholes so that every State applies a Federal Law in the exact same way.

    There are many parts of the legislation that I think should be changed. Can anyone tell me why in certain states it should be legal to by a machine-gun for defense. In an urban area this would be like selling a WMD
     

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