Another Shooting...Another Death: At CNN Headquarters

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Forum' started by Dyre Straits, Apr 3, 2007.

  1. Sandok

    Sandok New Member

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    Then why would the richest most intelligent and most powerful country then have the higher crime and murder than countries that don't even OFFER their citizens guns for protection?

    It's a complete contradiction.
     
  2. Calinerti

    Calinerti New Member

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    What is it about the US economy that kills people? I cannot agree with that at all. In the top ten countries in terms of murders with firearms per capita (according to nationmaster), the US is the only first world nation. There isnt any correlation between a strong economy and high murder rates with guns.
     
  3. Teme

    Teme Super Moderator

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    That is so true!
     
  4. Mousey

    Mousey HH's Official Rodent

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    when people get pissed with guns they pull the trigger no doubt about it but the thing with knives is the exact same thing can happen, a moments rage and whaddya know you got a 12" or whatever poking out the other side, i spose guns are like R.L's rocket launchers, n00bs only :bleh:
     
  5. Trusteft

    Trusteft HH's Asteroids' Dominator

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    Well, I don't have the numbers now but how many dozen million poor are there in the USA?
    Just because the USA (or any X country) is so powerful and has so much wealth, it doesn't mean that all those millions are well off too.
    That in combination with different life style, different (to a point) family structures and social (government) protection, help increase crime, including murders.
     
  6. Calinerti

    Calinerti New Member

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    There is a difference between the two. Which, do you think affords more lethal force? i.e. which is more likely to result in death, given that its a moment of anger or frustration which caused the delivery in the first place? Its no secret that knives can kill. And its also no secret that with increased expenditure on firearms in the US, there are more deaths from firearms. That is DIRECT correlation. Amount of firearms and deaths from firearms. Direct correlation.
    There have been knives forever. A moment of anger is unlikely to cause a fatal injury, but it does happen. (Whoever mentioned the ROCK as a competitor for a firearm in terms of lethal force is clearly confused).
     
  7. Calinerti

    Calinerti New Member

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    Obviously........
     
  8. Trusteft

    Trusteft HH's Asteroids' Dominator

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    Does it really matter what the exact number is when the number is very high anyway? :rolleyes:
     
  9. Sandok

    Sandok New Member

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    Do you think there aren't millions of poor people in the other countries I've constantly given as examples? You think the US is alone in that?

    And yet, even though guns are easily and cheaply available to the rich and poor for protection, crime is high? Your goverment has the most sofistacated police force as well as a decent social enviroment and yet, all these positive factors are ruined because of about 5-6% of the poor american popualtion?
     
  10. Calinerti

    Calinerti New Member

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    This FOR PROTECTION drum has been beaten long enough.

    Garbage.

    If you get shot to death in the US, chances are you know the person who killed you. Hey gun owners! If you fear the bullet, the odds are someone you know will put it into you. Most homicides in the US are within families or ppl known to the victim. The more ppl you know with a gun, the more likely you are to die by a gun. These are official statistics from the FBI.

    As for the for protection thing, in 2005 (which are the latest available), there were only 192 justifiable deaths by firearms caused by private gun owners. Less than 1%. 1%!! Even given the NRA rebuttal, saying that the figure should be between 4 and 8 times that, at 8 times the FBI's number the amount of justifiable deaths from firearms is under 5%.

    the pro gun stance is looking weak in this thread. You guys have attacked the statistics, ignored the facts, and at every opportunity pointed out that its "for protection". Living in fear is one thing. Owning a killing tool, so you can feel safe, at the cost of 19 lives per 20, is bizarre.

    In 2005, more ppl were shot and killed by complete stangers, for unknown reasons, than were shot and killed by the POLICE.

    Since 1980, expenditure on firearms has more than doubled. since 1980 the amount of deats by firearms has more than doubled. This may be the only statistic, Bluemak, that ties in with your theory that the the US ecomony kills ppl. More money into firearms, more death out the other side.

    Wake up. More guns equals more deaths. The numbers are there for all to see. The numbers are there for all to see.
     
  11. Trusteft

    Trusteft HH's Asteroids' Dominator

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    I didn't know that 5-6% of the population of Greece were americans, cool. I need to travel more.


    How can you even compare the population (general and amount of poor) of USA to any other western country? Yes, Germany or France or Switzerland do not each have 10-20+ million poor, but they are not a 300 million country either. :rolleyes:
     
  12. Sandok

    Sandok New Member

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    I can't believe I even have to explain this... You don't compare the direct size of the population, you compare the PERCENTAGE of a population, which is what I've done.

    But even if you somehow disagree with that, let's compare ALL of Central Europe to ALL of USA. We have harsher gun control in the majority of countries and as a result, we have less murders and gun crime and yes, we are also now more than 300 million.

    And when did I say there are Americans in Greece? You're gonna have to point that out to me :(
     
  13. Trusteft

    Trusteft HH's Asteroids' Dominator

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    Quoting me you said the above...


    You can't use the percentage of the two countries because they are not similar countries. If they were two similar countries with only the amount of population different then yes. But elsewhere it just doesn't add up. If Switzerland had the same percentage of unemployment, of POOR PEOPLE, of population density etc etc perhaps.
    You also can't just add a bunch of countries together. Central Europe is not a country.


    BTW, are weapons allowed in Iraq?
     
  14. Sandok

    Sandok New Member

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    Well given there was a shooting today, I forgot who showed me that grave shootings also happen in other countries apart from the US but damn, three major shootings in two months? And you guys still say guns protect you more than cause deaths? And that guns don't have anything to do with the unfortunate and useless deaths of these 32 (so far) people but that everything else (economic, religious, poverty, social class, education, forest density, minimum wage, etc) are to blame? Wow.
     
  15. Dowaco

    Dowaco New Member

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    I just read this whole thread due to the shootings in Virginia today. To keep on topic about gun ownership let me chime in with a few things.

    Guns in the US are not for protection in the event of a crime being committed against you, although they might come in handy for that use. Gun ownership is a right set forth in the constitution of the US. One of the founding principles of the country, the right to bear arms, is there to prevent the government from subjugating the population with an army. It gives the people power over the government unlike other forms of government like monarchies and dictatorships. Can you imagine a King, Emperor or Despot allowing the little guy to own a rifle? Why they might form a militia and overthrow the crown or stage a coup.
    This right is important enough to accept the use of guns as murder weapons just as we accept the occasional freeing of a criminal because he is presumed innocent so that an innocent man is not punished unfairly. It is a trade-off that we in the US are willing to make.

    Automobiles kill more people than guns or AIDS, or wars. Nobody does a dam thing about auto safety and you do not see headlines reading 118 people killed today in cars because they would have to run the same story everyday of the year.
     
  16. Sandok

    Sandok New Member

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    It was in your constitution and so what? That piece of paper that defines your country (and the one that defines mine, and my neighbours and all) is outdated in ways that are almost embarrassing.

    Just because you have a right to guns doesn't mean you shouldn't think about it for a second and just accept it as a blatant right?

    Anyways, I'm not saying you ban guns, I'm saying you get stricter gun control. My country has 30% of households with guns and yet (you have 41%), we have about FOURTEEN times less gun violence thanks to stricter control. Wouldn't that maybe be a better alternative than no guns or a gun in each child, woman and man's hand?

    And what do you mean nobody does a thing about autosafety? Firstly, car manufacturers such as Volvo or Renault always aim for a 5 star NCAP (which they get bythe way) and overall, car safety development is being tackled 24/7 thanks to the enormous amount of vehicales on the roads today. They don't seem to be doing the same for guns though.
     
  17. >GSXR<mrbusa

    >GSXR<mrbusa MY BIKE vvv

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    Why is it that people that do not live in the US always have an opinion on how we should live. If you like being told how to live your life and what you can and cannot own then that is your problem. The only problem with these shootings are the fact that the wrong people are getting shot.
     
  18. Sandok

    Sandok New Member

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    Hell you listened to your parents for at least 15 years of your life, living how they suggested you should? Does being an adult mean now you listen to noone? You should learn from your mistakes and from the knowledge of others.

    But hey, it's not my students being killed so yeah, you don't have to listen and to be honest, I'm just voicing my opinion. My country has none of this, too bad you wouldn't want that for yours.
     
  19. Dowaco

    Dowaco New Member

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    There are laws against killing people but that does not stop someone from killing. Laws are made by representatives of the people. If the majority of the people vote to give up their rights, then it will be done. The piece of paper that defines our nation says the right to bear arms shall not be infringed. Most of the people in this country are in favor of that retaining that right.
    This debate has been going on for scores of years and is brought to the forefront after a horrible event such as this. Lunatics exist and tragedies will happen with or without guns. I am happy for you Sandok that you live in a place you like and feel safe. I am not advocating that your country should change its constitution to be more like the way I think it should be. I like where I live and see no need to change it to give the government more power over me and my family.
     
  20. Sandok

    Sandok New Member

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    Well when I lived in the US, that constant fear of gun crime and lunatics got old... really fast. But what I just can't understand is why you accept to live the way you do and not fight the problems are the root? Wouldn't you want complete safety and all? As you said, I have that and love it, so wouldn't you want something comparable?

    Ah well, I guess that's your mentality vs mine.
     

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