Discussion in '3-D Audio' started by inteks, Aug 4, 2003.
can we expect 3d/eax in future?
Forget EAX, because it is a proprietary Creative product. A3D was also effectively killed by Creative when they purchased Aureal. So essentially the only real viable solution (without shelling out money for EAX priviledges and making kX project no longer free) is to go the OpenAL route (which, incidentally Creative offers the SDK so it seems they are hedging their bets).
1. my audigy IS a Creative Product too !!
2. i like the ReverbFx in Unreal and other games!
3. i think it easier to implement EAX because eax=creative and card=creative
(eugene, please correct me if its wrong)
As far as I remember the KX team will implement EAX someday, but they're not in a hurry for it as there are more important stuff to program in the drivers, like musician's oriented ones. Search the forum about this and you'll see what I mean...
yep, impementing all the EAX1/2/3 stuff isn't so easy as one might imagine. a good reverberation engine, low-pass and high-pass filters, attenuation and spatialization, HRTF etc, etc, etc...
it all requires a lot of human*hours to be implemented
anyway, we are working on it at the moment (more or less )
Heh... most games that use EAX are only using things like echo chamber effects to make it sound like you are "inside", but end up just sounding like you are inside someone's sewage pipes...
although games that use head tracking for surround sound on effects like bullet tracers and such are way more immersive...
first i have to say: even though i dont use the whole features of kx drivers, it provided me with the little tweaks i missed in the standard drivers and i m glad i can use them for mixing and mastering the songs i recorded with my band. thx !
meanwhile i m used to play half-life and mods for a long time, and i was always happy to have the eax back to my sb128pci, where i could exactly hear whether a sound comes from the back or front of me. this is extremly helpfull in an ego-shooter
so now that im using kx-drivers (and sb-audigy) for all the benefits with recording, id also like to see it doing the eax features (just the in front / from the back) like the 128 pci has already done.
what i noticed using the 5, 10, 00, 3534f drivers is that eax seems to work ( i hear the sound from the back and it is differing from the front's one, but: it is way too calm.
its really hard too notice. it just had to be louder i think.
maybe it is possible to do this by myself somewhere in the settings or can you imagine what it is and tell me if you will perhaps make this a bit better. thx
ps: i have to say i m using only headphones no surround system.
I wonder how other hardware vendors (like Realtek and Crystal Media) manage to support at least some level of EAX (I think EAX2) in their drivers? Where did they get implementation details?
As far as reverb engine is concerned EAX uses Feedback Delay Networks model and that is quite well explained on the web.
Presets for reverb seem to be standard (cave, underwater, sewer pipe,...) since other hardware manufacturers know them or they wouldn't be able to implement them.
Positional audio and occlusion and obstruction are the most complicated parts and I even think that biggest part of the work is done by driver itself and not by DSP.
It would really require a lot of resources to implement it but it would be a giant step up for kX project indeed because IMHO gamer community has more money to donate to the fund than amateur musicians
Personally I would like to see at least reverb engine and the ability for games to change reverb presets via EAX interface. That shouldn't be so hard to implement.
>> other hardware vendors
most of them use the same Sensaura-based engine
there are two main EAX engines available at the moment: CL, Sensaura
there's also QSound with some EAX support
>> IMHO gamer community has more money to donate to the fund than amateur musicians
yes, but we will never manage to compete CL drivers in gaming performance (at least, not in the near future)
as for the 'quick and dirty' implementation, yes, EAX1 is very easy to implement
... which is now belongs to Creative.
no they don't... check thier news
As a gamer I've been checking the KX drivers every now and then, hoping for EAX being finally implemented. I'm just so sick of the crashes with the CL drivers that I frequently have with my Live 5.1. Every time the todo list grows a position smaller, I get my hopes up....in vain up to now. And now the latest KX drivers have SMP issues...which hurts me, as I've got a dual P3 system here. I might just as well give up hope for my Live and get some other card, a Hercules maybe. Just certainly nothing CL anymore.
Edit: EAX support does seem to be in high demand, at least judging from the amount of thread views. 2nd most viewed thread in the forum.
>> no they don't... check thier news
unfortunately, they are
review this article: http://www.sensaura.com/corporate/index.php?article=history.htm (the very bottom)
so, we are very sorry to say that there's currently NO independent 3-D audio engine available anymore...
(we don't count QSound as a real competitor... NVidia drivers were somewhat sensaura-based)
I sure hope Creative Labs will go down, better sooner than later. They're sucking up every competition like a big black hole, and their own drivers don't get any better. Now EAX is completely in CL's hands, proprietary like 3dfx Glide was. And we all know what happened to 3dfx.
I'm also a little like HolyAvenger in that I've been watching the development of the KX drivers since their incipience and the one thing I've scanned for is some form of EAX. Now I'm not technically proficient enough to gauge how easy/hard this is to implement but I'm starting to appreciate how much these drivers already go beyond the standard CL drivers.
As a extreme hobbyist musician (with too many bills to afford a 2496 card just yet) these drivers are a God send. They allowed me to use Gigastudio (though I've now started using Kontakt) and reduced the latency in CubaseSX. I suspect they'll also cure the Spdif output that my brother is having with the current CL drivers.
EAX would be very nice but mainly it would just save me the 20 secs or to switch back to the CL drivers if I want to game with EAX.
Although it may not be voiced often, I'm sure I don't speak for myself when I convey my gratitude for the excellent work the KX team is doing. (EAX or not )
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