Covid 19

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Forum' started by Trusteft, Mar 11, 2020.

  1. Judas

    Judas Obvious Closet Brony Pony

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    well when you do ask doctors and they go "you know, i'm not a fan of various vaccines being rushed through and completely avoiding the red tape that any other vaccine or drug or literally anything else is often required to have to have thorough testing/trialing", it often is good reason to understand that perhaps it's not the greatest of ideas for some people.

    Long term impacts be damned though right?
     
  2. Trusteft

    Trusteft HH's Asteroids' Dominator

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    I am not going to repeat myself.
     
  3. Mr Cairo

    Mr Cairo Require backup .... NO

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    Im actually with Judas on this the Covid drugs have been rushed to market (I understand why but it does not change the fact)
     
  4. IvanV

    IvanV HH Assassin Guild Member

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    It's not quite a drug, though. It's not a new compound that's supposed to do something and we're not sure what else it does. All of the components that make the vaccine, barring the actual covid component, are known and tested. As for the covid portion, well, we either get into contact with it through the vaccine or by contracting the actual virus itself sooner or later. And the latter variant may not be the end of the world, but the statistics are strongly in favour of the former.

    To be completely fair, I'll admit to slightly oversimplifying the matter. There's a reason why there are testing protocols and, for example, the adenoviral vector vaccines can be quite tricky because you really need to find the sweet spot with the dosage, between your new vaccine not doing anything and it being too unpleasant for the recipient, but with the millions of doses having already been administered, I think we're well past having to really worry about it, beyond some statistical fluke. A bit of a headache, a bit of a temperature? If you (anyone who reads this) have a kid and you had it vaccinated, you know that that's 100% normal. Not pleasant, but there's no real drama in it.

    I do understand the anxiety, though, at least I think that I do. If you take the vaccine, you are taking a risk with it, no matter how small, whereas witht he disease, you might not get it, or it may go through it without even noticing, like some others do, it may or may not even happen, it's in the future. It's a very human way of thinking, but it's also a poor probability assessment. Unless you have an allergy to any of the components or some other condition that makes it inadvisable to get the vaccine (for which a doctor should be consulted), the statistics are very much in favour of getting the vaccine versus getting your immunity "the old fashioned way", regardless of your age or anything else (and, well, it's a respiratory disease for which we don't have pre-existing immunity, so we either snuff it out somehow, or we all get it sooner or later).

    This disease has been with us for a year now. Many countries have registered deaths of over 0.1% of their entire population (so, not of the infected, that percentage is automatically much higher) due to the disease. And I don't know about yours, but in mine, the excess mortality for the last year is much higher than the number of those deaths. Despite the lockdown and lack of mobility decreasing deaths from traffic accidents and some other causes. Compare that to... how many deaths among the millions vaccinated? Just look at the media, the death of a vaccinated person is a sensation, each studied individually, and the deaths of the infected are just a statistic. It's not hard to conclude what gives you a better chance, by orders of magnitude.
     
  5. arb65912

    arb65912 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, interesting that with all precautions your son got it.

    I hope his recovery will be quick and without complications and you and wife will stay virus free.

    It has been a year since all this started, hard to believe .

    Take care and stay safe!
     
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  6. arb65912

    arb65912 Well-Known Member

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    lol,lol,lol you must disagree with Judas judging from your reply.

    I am trying to read and listen with very critical mind in all cases but the problem is that today you can actually find any answer you want, just looking at the certain source so it is hard to be really objective and find out what is the 100 truth.

    Yes, I know what doctors will tell but they are not scientists anyway, they say what they are told too but by who is the question.

    Anyway, not trying to start an argument here, just sharing my thoughts. :)
     
  7. Trusteft

    Trusteft HH's Asteroids' Dominator

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    I give up.
     
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  8. arb65912

    arb65912 Well-Known Member

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    Don't ! :) We are just talking....not arguing, right?
     
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  9. Mr Cairo

    Mr Cairo Require backup .... NO

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    Yes they are safe but once they introduced Covid into the equation everything they knew for sure about how Product A, Product B and Product C and how they act together changed

    For example

    Product C + Product A Mixed together = SAFE for people with hypertension that take Rampril

    Product C + Product A + Product B Mixed together = SAFE for everyone

    Product B + Product C Mixed together = SAFE for Pregnant women taking prenatal supplements

    and so on and so on Tried, tested and safe

    But then we add Covid and all that they know for sure changes

    Product C + Product A + Covid Mixed together = Long term effects on hypertension that take Rampril unknown as trial period is less than 6 months

    Product C + Product A + Product B + Covid Mixed together = Long term effects on Everyone unknown as trial period is was less than 6 months

    Product B + Product C + Covid Mixed together = Long term effects on Pregnant Women taking prenatal supplements unknown as trial period is was less than 6 months (3 months less than the length of full term Pregnancy)

    I get that its the only option but dont tell me its long term safe as there has not been any long term testing, Clinical trials take years this is short term safe as in "this is the best we can do at the moment take it or leave it ....but your going to take it"

    I will be taking the drug I just have serious doubt about the research that gone into it being "long term Safe"

    The average length of time of a normal clinical drug trial is about 6-7 years I get that we are in extraordinary times but that still gives me pause

    LoL no we are not ... This is nothing compared to the "AMD is better , Sod that Nvidia is the man" debates that have happened here
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2021
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  10. IvanV

    IvanV HH Assassin Guild Member

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    I agree to a point, but long term effects usually come either from one traumatic event, or from long term exposure. Here it's neither. There's nothing traumatic that happens instantaneously (with how many people took the various vaccines, it would have in all likelihood been caught by now), and there is no chronic exposure, because you take two shots several weeks apart and you're done, it's not like a drug people take chronically to keep some medical condition in check. In the latter case, it's a very good question what happens six or more months down the line, not because people will have consequences from the dose they took half a year ago, but because they will have been taking a certain dose steadily over the entire period. With the vaccine it's not the case. The active component in the Pfizer vaccine is gone after 5-6 hours, the others kick about a little longer than that, but they don't stay there to produce a long term effect that's not immediately visible.

    Also worth noting is that COVID itself isn't without a risk of long term effects: damage to the lungs, damage from clogged blood vessels... Also, hopefully that's that, but I can't help but think of that buddy of my wife's, who had two epileptic seizures during the course of the illness (despite not having had a history of such problems in the previous 33 years of his life).

    Our government procured a couple of million swine flu vaccines during that pandemic a few years ago. I'm one of the people who, like most of the others, decided that I was going to pass on the opportunity, that the vaccine had been rushed and that the risk of the disease was too small to be worth it. But here, the risk assessment is a lot different. Not because the vaccines have been fully tested (although it seems to me that, this time, the amount of the available information is much greater), but because the threat from the virus itself is much higher this time around.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2021
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  11. IvanV

    IvanV HH Assassin Guild Member

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    BTW, we seem to be running out of people who want to take the vaccine. They called up a co-worker who is 27 or thereabout (so the lowest priority) and who specifically asked for AstraZeneca (which we only got recently and I don't think we have that may of them). Although I keep hearing complaints from people who signed up a long time ago and are at least twice her age, who haven't been called yet. That and some recent official statistics of rates of immunization by municipality seem to corroborate a very ugly thing I heard some time ago (and from someone who's actually an insider), and that is that, apart from the age, they are prioritizing people from municipalities where our ruling party didn't do that well in the last election (over those where they did) as a part of an unofficial early campaign.
     
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  12. Trusteft

    Trusteft HH's Asteroids' Dominator

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    From what I read the Russian vaccine might sooner or later become available in the EU and I have to say, I don't trust it. I have nothing to base that other than I don't trust Russian governments in general, at all.
    If and it's a huge if, becomes the only available (which won't) then I will get it, but I rather not.
     
  13. IvanV

    IvanV HH Assassin Guild Member

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    The Russians were doing their usual "we can't give you full details, but trust us, our stuff is second to none" routine, which also made me skeptical about them, but apparently they finally came out with some decently documented statistical data, which was the condition for any kind of entry into the EU. From what I gather, the stuff works, but it can induce quite a fever.
     
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  14. arb65912

    arb65912 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, it is simply too short time to say if it is safe on a long run.
     
  15. arb65912

    arb65912 Well-Known Member

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    I only hope that whatever and whoever comes up with something that works will not be tangled into the politics which always complicates things.
     
  16. IvanV

    IvanV HH Assassin Guild Member

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    So, the SinoPharm vaccine I got is potentially a bit trash. I am yet to measure my own level of antibodies, but a good friend's dad measured his some 4 weeks after the second shot and again now after six and, on a scale where 1 is the referential value (important, because I've seen those where it's 15 and those where it's 50 as well), he scored 15 the first time and 5 the second. There are also many reports of people getting results that are just around that minimum threshold where the result is still considered positive, and even those where it was below.

    Meanwhile, that same buddy and his wife took Pfizers and their results are over 400 and over 300 respectively.
     
  17. Trusteft

    Trusteft HH's Asteroids' Dominator

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    *sigh*
     
  18. MIG-31

    MIG-31 Old time Member.. Staff Member

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    In the UK from yesterday we are allowed to meet up in groups of six (And still have to keep a social Distance)....

    Just Pissed that this is the scenes from a local park less than a Mile away from were i live, It has already had 3 Dispersal Orders during lock down in the last few months.

    Sorry to say that Students are Not Very well Respected over the last year or so... And This is a Huge Student Area as the Trent Uni is only just down the road....

    Covid: 'Madness' as hundreds descend on Nottingham park - BBC News
     
  19. Trusteft

    Trusteft HH's Asteroids' Dominator

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    If you want to reduce this type of behavior you need to also ban alcohol.
     
  20. clubrope

    clubrope Well-Known Member

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    If my source is right, vaccine's effects showing on the host bodies in 5 years.
     

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