Covid 19

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Forum' started by Trusteft, Mar 11, 2020.

  1. Jac

    Jac Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,516
    Likes Received:
    164
    Trophy Points:
    73
    I went to the park last week when we had some early Spring sunshine and it heartened me to see the place packed with people. I think it's evidemce that people are no longer prepared to be told that they have to stay inside for months on end to hide away from a low level coronovirus with at most a 0.3 morbidity rate.

    The fact that we have fucked up the economy for this absolutely staggers me - then again I am one who remembers the crash of the late noughties. I never recovered from that in terms of job prospects and financial stability and it's only in recent years that I have got back to a place of being able to buy luxuries like PC hardware. Once the dust settles from these idiotic policies the noughties crash is going to look like a gplden age.

    I will never again vote for a party that advocated lockdown. They are a threat to fundamental civil liberties, the UK government is now ready to impose 'Covid Passports', whilst pretending that they are 'only considering' it and that they will be a temporary measure. They are ID cards by the back door and yet another step towards a full surveilllance culture.
     
  2. Trusteft

    Trusteft HH's Asteroids' Dominator

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2004
    Messages:
    23,924
    Likes Received:
    3,711
    Trophy Points:
    153
    I am not going to say anything about the economy vs covid other than that it's easier to recover from loss of money than loss of life.
    If the low as you say rate affected you personally or your loved ones, perhaps you would see it differently, perhaps.

    What I want to say though is about ID cards. You do realize there are other countries, other free countries, with national ID cards, right?
    It's like a reverse situation with constitution. Democratic countries have constitution, yet the UK which has no written constitution has somewhat managed to not fall into dictatorship yet.
    Also, full surveillance culture is a thing for at least 25 years now. The number of cameras out there, or the billions of people sharing their life on facebook etc, what do you think it is? National ID cards are nothing.
     
  3. center_table

    center_table Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    74
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Yeah, we are under full surveillance culture right now but this Covid passport is different since people without it will be restricted to everything from traveling, going to gyms, buying groceries and etc. This is going to be total control and our freedom will be taken away.
     
  4. Trusteft

    Trusteft HH's Asteroids' Dominator

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2004
    Messages:
    23,924
    Likes Received:
    3,711
    Trophy Points:
    153
    I don't share the sentiment. The good of the many outweighs the good of the few, or the one. If a country doesn't want you to go to them for vacation because you are unwilling to take a vaccine which will protect not only yourself, but most importantly their own people, then I won't shed a tear.
     
  5. IvanV

    IvanV HH Assassin Guild Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2004
    Messages:
    11,349
    Likes Received:
    2,686
    Trophy Points:
    138
    Look around, we're all under restrictions, imposed out of a sense of necessity, and it's in everyone's interest to lift as much of them as possible as quickly as possible. From that standpoint, it makes all the sense in the world to have the restrictions apply to as few people as possible. Therefore, when you suddenly have a certain low risk population, it makes all the sense in the world to ease the restrictions for them. For the sake of those people, for the sake of all the businesses that the restrictions affect and for all of those who are affected by that indirectly. And as that population expands (as more and more people are vaccinated), so will the restrictions affect fewer and fewer people, until the epidemic winds down and we are able to lift them altogether.

    BTW, we have established as a society that it is a personal choice to either take or not take the vaccine and many people opt to not go for it on the basis of a perceived possibility of the vaccines posing a risk to themselves. Many times, I heard those people actually saying: "Hey, there are many of you who want the vaccine. That's great, I'll wait a little and after all of you have taken it and we have collective immunity, it won't even matter if I took it or not!", and that's kind of a selfish reasoning, but hey, they are entitled to it. But now those same people are crying foul and asking everyone who took the vaccine to show solidarity with them and give up all the nice things that still can't be opened for everyone, until those without individual immunity can also join. And here I can say two things.

    Firstly, that everything is a choice. Even if you don't always realize that, whatever you do in life, you are making a choice, the choice to do or have one thing, and not something else. When you opt to not take the vaccine, you choose, and you prioritize not risking taking a vaccine that only has an approval for emergency use over getting immunity to covid and pushing to end the pandemic sooner. So, longer restrictions are a part of that choice and people should realize that and say "Hey, I can't have this now, but that's because I chose to have this other thing which is more important to me." Likewise, those who take the vaccine make a choice, but they choose the opposite, they pick the option to get immunity to covid and to push to end the pandemic and the restrictions sooner, even if that means taking a personal risk with a vaccine that hasn't been through all the testing it would normally undergo before being distributed to the wider public. And that's my first argument: whether you opt to take the vaccine or not, you made a choice, own it.

    The second one applies to the ones I quoted, who think that it's best for them to behave like the pandemic is something that happens to other people and just keep their head down and hope that collective immunity, through a combination of natural, post infection immunity and the one coming from the vaccines, will be achieved without their participation (and I really heard that attitude being expressed by a number of folks). Those guys who openly say or personally think "Ok, you go ahead, I won't stick my neck out, and when it's all over and the collective immunity is achieved, I'll enjoy the benefit of it just like everyone else.", do not have any moral basis to cry foul and ask others to show solidarity with them.
     
  6. arb65912

    arb65912 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2017
    Messages:
    826
    Likes Received:
    515
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Interesting read.
    I am not going to argue in any way as arguing online is pointless but exchanging views is always nice if done in a write manner.

    My question is:' "what is wrong with the fact that people who are not convinced about vaccines safety are not taking it?"
     
  7. IvanV

    IvanV HH Assassin Guild Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2004
    Messages:
    11,349
    Likes Received:
    2,686
    Trophy Points:
    138
    One of my coworkers who took the SinoPharm vaccine at the same time as I did (at least the first dose, he was a bit ill when he was supposed to take the second one, so they postponed it by a week), has just tested positive on a quick antigen test.
     
    arb65912 likes this.
  8. arb65912

    arb65912 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2017
    Messages:
    826
    Likes Received:
    515
    Trophy Points:
    93
    So he got the virus after being vaccinated?
     
  9. IvanV

    IvanV HH Assassin Guild Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2004
    Messages:
    11,349
    Likes Received:
    2,686
    Trophy Points:
    138
    Yup, both doses. He also checked his antibodies a bit after the vaccine and he had some, so hopefully that will help him get through the illness more easily.
     
  10. Tyrsonswood

    Tyrsonswood HH's curmudgeon

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2008
    Messages:
    13,779
    Likes Received:
    1,561
    Trophy Points:
    138
    I was at the pharmacy today getting medication and asked about how to sign up for the covid shots. The girl hands me this slip of paper with a phone number and a website and says you "either call this number or go online and sign up". Then I asked if she knew which vaccine they had, and she said they were totally booked up and not accepting additional people....

    Which had me pondering why she handed me this worthless scrap of paper in the first place... dunno.gif
     
  11. IvanV

    IvanV HH Assassin Guild Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2004
    Messages:
    11,349
    Likes Received:
    2,686
    Trophy Points:
    138
    Hopefully those can be used to check the status in the future and find out when they start accepting new applications.

    Heard from the ill work mate. He says he feels fine most of the time, but occasionally he has the impression that it's gone to his lungs. No shortness of breath or anything and he has been to the doctor's where they said there was nothing, so hopefully it's just the nerves. His better half is not faring that well. She feels unwell but so far her lungs are fine. She has some condition that prevented her from getting a vaccine.
     
  12. arb65912

    arb65912 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2017
    Messages:
    826
    Likes Received:
    515
    Trophy Points:
    93
    So getting vaccinated makes the illness milder or faster to end?
     
  13. IvanV

    IvanV HH Assassin Guild Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2004
    Messages:
    11,349
    Likes Received:
    2,686
    Trophy Points:
    138
    That was the takeaway from the vaccine trials: it reduces the likelihood of infection and in the case that the infection does occur, the immune response of the body is quicker and more efficient, preventing more serious cases from developing.

    A buddy just told me that he knows two more people who got the SinoPharm vaccine, but are now positive. Apparently, both have a bit of a runny nose and little else. The said buddy is a bit worried, though. He's planning a trip to Egypt at the end of the month and for that he needs his PCR test to be clean. He's perfectly healthy, but now this news makes him think that he might turn out positive even if he doesn't have any symptoms.
     
  14. Trusteft

    Trusteft HH's Asteroids' Dominator

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2004
    Messages:
    23,924
    Likes Received:
    3,711
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Getting my first dosage on Tuesday. Wish me luck.
     
    Tyrsonswood and IvanV like this.
  15. Mr Cairo

    Mr Cairo DREDD do You require backup .... NO

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Messages:
    4,408
    Likes Received:
    1,724
    Trophy Points:
    138
    Good luck but honestly its a breeze ... although it seems my experience is better than most I dint feel the injection and had minimum arm ache after and zero symptoms

    the system the place used though was just madness

    I had my injection at a place called Margam park its a heritage site that has been re purposed for vaccine injections

    the actual injection took place in the Margam Orangery a beautiful building that is normally a high end wedding venue

    So ...arrive at Orangery and there is a guy outside i high viz jacket who asks to see my letter he directs me to a sectioned car park for Covid tests

    Leave a car and there is another guy in a high viz sitting at the gate he checks my letter and sends me to the front door a short walk along a path

    get to door 2nd guy in high viz again checks letter he adds me to a group making the numbers up to 8

    the 8 of us are directed inside and check in name and address DOB at front desk then we are directed to waiting room 1

    This is 8 chairs 2 meters apart one for each of us ... we sit then we are asked to follow the nurse to waiting room 2

    as I leave I see them cleaning waiting room 1

    waiting room 2 is 8 chairs 2 meters apart one for each of us ... we sit then we are asked to follow the nurse to the injection room

    as i leave I see them cleaning waiting room 2

    Finally I am in the Injection room and it is also 8 chairs 2 meters apart one for each of us ... we sit then we are again checked by Nurse for DOB and stuff and its at this point that I am finally asked if I have had any Covid symptoms over the last 2 weeks ...really!!! now you ask after all that moving about

    Why not have the guy on the gate who took my details while I was still in the car and had no contact with anyone ask me that and if I say yes I go home instead I went through 3 check points and 2 waiting rooms ...seems like it needs work
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
  16. Trusteft

    Trusteft HH's Asteroids' Dominator

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2004
    Messages:
    23,924
    Likes Received:
    3,711
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Two years ago the whole thing would sound like a script for a dystopian future sci-fi movie.
     
  17. IvanV

    IvanV HH Assassin Guild Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2004
    Messages:
    11,349
    Likes Received:
    2,686
    Trophy Points:
    138
    Sounds similar to how it works here, although the prevailing impression here is that it's being done rather efficiently. If I remember correctly, you show your invitation and they measure your temperature at the entrance, then you show that and the consent form again at a reception desk, from where you are dispatched to the actual check-in. There you show the invitation and an official ID and are sent along further to a physician, who is supposed to do a quick exam, but mostly just asks you if you are healthy (with people generally knowing that they need to be healthy, so they usually postpone over the phone and don't go if they aren't) and whether you have any allergies. After that, it's off to a vaccination booth (one person at a time per booth) and that's it. Sounds like more steps then necessary, but it's over in minutes.
     
  18. Mr Cairo

    Mr Cairo DREDD do You require backup .... NO

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Messages:
    4,408
    Likes Received:
    1,724
    Trophy Points:
    138
    Oh don't get me wrong its very efficient but that last step should really be the first step surely?

    Arrive in car

    Hello have you had any covid symptoms in the last few days

    Yes - Go Home

    No - On you go
     
    IvanV likes this.
  19. IvanV

    IvanV HH Assassin Guild Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2004
    Messages:
    11,349
    Likes Received:
    2,686
    Trophy Points:
    138
    Apparently, it takes a qualified physician to ask you that and assess your answer so it can't be done by the guy in the parking lot. :D
     
  20. Mr Cairo

    Mr Cairo DREDD do You require backup .... NO

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Messages:
    4,408
    Likes Received:
    1,724
    Trophy Points:
    138
    But If a Nurse can ask me before I get my injection then couldn't they feasibly stick a nurse on the front gate? , That has to be better than me getting to that final step and telling the Nurse that yes I have had all the symptoms :)
     

Share This Page

visited