EAX (Eugene please read)

Discussion in '3-D Audio' started by JohnMcClane, Dec 15, 2004.

  1. JohnMcClane

    JohnMcClane New Member

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    Like I already mentioned in another thread, I contacted Creative's support forum concerning the EAX data sheets. They told me to get in contact with Creative's Developer Relations USA - well I did that and they replied pretty fast here is what they wrote:
     
  2. JohnMcClane

    JohnMcClane New Member

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    Regarding EAX environment presets data
    I guess what they need to is to get the EAX SDK so they can get the Preset
    info.

    In the EAX SDK, there exist a EAX.H file that contains the Preset
    data.

    What publically available...

    The EAX 2.0 Specifications are available at:
    http://developer.creative.com/landing.asp?cat=1&sbcat=31&top=71

    Attached is EAX10.ZIP , and this contains the EAX.H file with the
    preset values.
    attached is the EAX.H file from the EAX1.0 API


    Looking at EAX20, I see that the defined presets were moved to a .LIB
    file. and are not shown in the EAX.H, but
    in EAX 3 and 4, they were moved back. weird

    EAX 2.0 SDK:
    The complete EAX 2.0 SDK, including documentation, header files, and
    example source code.
    http://developer.creative.com/articles/article.asp?cat=1&sbcat=31&top=71&aid=138


    EAX 2.0 API Guide:
    Main EAX 2.0 documentation.
    Includes explanations of EAX terminology, and detailed listing of all
    EAX 2.0 parameters.


    http://developer.creative.com/articles/article.asp?cat=1&sbcat=31&top=71&aid=139

    As far as I know, Each company can develop their own EAX, audio mixing
    and HRTF (Head Related Transfer Function) algorithms.

    Searching for environmental+audio
    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=environmental+audio+algorithms

    3D Audio - The Sonic Spot
    http://www.sonicspot.com/guide/3daudio.html

    There are a lot of research for HRTF...

    A quick search... HRTF
    http://www.google.com/search?q=+head+related+transfer+function+hrtf

    2 Speakers, Head Phone, 4 speakers, 5.1, 6.1, 7.1 ...
    Each speaker configuration requires different HRTF algorithm's and
    filters.


    Regards,
    Phillip Williams
    Creative Labs
    Developer Support
    DevRelSupport@CreativeLabs.com
    http://developer.creative.com/
    http://opensource.creative.com/
    http://preview.creativelabs.com/
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    Guest User <m.lodin@inode.at>
    12/13/04 01:33 PM


    To: devrelsupport@creativelabs.com
    cc:
    Subject: EAX for kX audio driver


    Message Sent: 12/13/2004

    Dear Sirs,

    I'm a 20 year old student from the technical university of Vienna
    (Austria), where I'm studying software engineering. A few months ago I
    came across an alternative audio driver for all soundcards with Emu10k1
    and Emu10k2 Chips - kX Audio Driver (www.kxproject.com). I was really
    impressed, how a driver that is only 5MB at size could be that much better
    than the original Creative drivers. The project is OpenSource and allowed
    me to write my own plugIns for it's fully customizable DSP. I was able to
    achieve ASIO latency down to 2ms and a superior audio quality when
    listening to music or watching movies. The only thing I was missing was
    the lack of EAX support in this drivers. The kX project Lead Programmer,
    Eugene Gavrilov, told me, that he would have worked on EAX support, but
    Creative did not publish the EAX enviroment presets data & specifications
    to him. I don't think that there would be any reason for creative to hold
    back that specs, so is there a chance to get them?
     
  3. JohnMcClane

    JohnMcClane New Member

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    Last edited: Dec 15, 2004
  4. Samir

    Samir kX Lover

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    hej, John, are you regitrated user @ developer.creative.com? EAX3 & EAX4 SDKs might come in handy...

    I think that Eugene is aware of EAX API'sif i remember right he found no real use out of it...

    Keep up the good work!
     
  5. JohnMcClane

    JohnMcClane New Member

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    No, In fact I'm pretty new to kx and digital sound processing. I have however a long-term programming experience and now I'm trying to write a few good plugIns for kx.

    If you wanna take a look to some other proggs I've written:

    Alarm: http://members.inode.at/m.lodin/other/Alarm10b.exe it's a fully skinable clock with alarm function. just try it, it's pretty cool

    HTML³D: http://members.inode.at/m.lodin/other/HTML³D.exe I wrote this HTML Editor in a time when I was the webadmin of a tactical ops clan - It made programming a lot easier for me, but I didn't work on it anymore, since I left the clan

    imgFX: http://members.inode.at/m.lodin/other/imgfx - 0.7.exe was just experimenting with Images (needs .jpg) - should be some test for an image editor I never wrote

    Snake.net: http://members.inode.at/m.lodin/other/snake - needs .net!!!!.rar That's a snake game I wrote for WIN2K/XP .net, it has a built in level editor - however I had more fun with programming, than playing it ;)

    I also made a simple disk hockey game (OpenGL), which I lost due to a disk fragmentation. The last six months I was developing a component package for delphi 7 - you can try it there (might have a few bugs) http://members.inode.at/m.lodin/other/GraphicControls.pas

    I stopped it, cause I own now Delphi8.Net and Visual Studio 2003.Net and the package doesn't work there anymore. And well, looks like my new hobbie will become kx ;)

    PS: Sorry for going sooo OFFTopic
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2004
  6. Eugene Gavrilov

    Eugene Gavrilov kX Project Lead Programmer and Coordinator

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    the problem is not with 'presets', actually
    of course, everyone can get EAX2 SDK (or even sign an NDA and get EAX3/EAX4 SDKs), but you won't get the source code for reverb engine.

    that is, it is possible to get the 'parameters' used in, say, 'Cavern' preset, but you will need to write a complete reverb engine (with reverb effect) in order to convert them into particular Reverb settings.

    since the present reverb implementations bundled with kX are not truely EAX-capable, and since I don't have enough time / intention / knowledge to design a brand-new reverb algorithm, the EAX cannot be supported.

    E.
     
  7. JohnMcClane

    JohnMcClane New Member

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    Sorry, i think I misunderstood that first :rolleyes:. Thx for clearing things up.
     
  8. pzad

    pzad New Member

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    For EAX 3, EAX 4, .. you need to sign NDA.
     
  9. JoshuaChang

    JoshuaChang New Member

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    hi Eugene, i think the eax's advantage is the change of env in different game scenes, the implement of the eax in kx could be like this:
    use the exist reverb engine and write some code to read the eax instruction in game(is it possible???),then change the env sound by switch the different preset in reverb engine, between the switch, just some fade needed

    that's all, no extra new engine needed
     
  10. Tiger M

    Tiger M kX user

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    Eugene, do you mean that the dsp implementation is not correct or the actual parameters to control the reverb are not known?

    Since the dsp part is extracted from the original creative dlls, I guess you mean the latter.

    I recently made a small investigation of my own to discover the parameters of EAX3 reverb (since its topology is most familiar to me) and I found the basic parameters. But I guess to truly achieve EAX there must be a whole bunch of other parameters, which control several or more physical registers.

    Would it be illegal to make a dialog with a few controls for these reverbs?
    Or to alter the dsp part for other uses (beside EAX)?

    I don't believe that these reverbs are much better than the ReverbStation actually (keeping in mind their different FDN structure) , the only improvement they seem to have (although I'm not shure) is modulation of some of the delay lenghts, which in theory would increase density and they are optimized (what I will make with ReverbSt. for its next release).
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2004
  11. Eugene Gavrilov

    Eugene Gavrilov kX Project Lead Programmer and Coordinator

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    >> do you mean that the dsp implementation is not correct or the actual
    >> parameters to control the reverb are not known?

    I mean that 'binary-only' reverbs (CLReverbXXX) cannot be used since we don't know how to change all the parameters, while the newer reverbs, such as ReverbStation, would require translation layer for changing EAX parameters into ReverbStation parameters (and none of the reverb authors has ever tried to write one).

    >> Would it be illegal to make a dialog with a few controls for these reverbs?

    if you don't use Creative Labs code for that, then, probably, that should be o.k. btw, have a look at the EAX4 reverb with presets

    we have a special tool for 'retrieving' DSP effects from the DSP (which works under any driver, CL or kX). it also tries to update the parameters in the .da code.

    also, our present plug-in architecture assumes the effects are executed in user-level mode, while EAX will need to access them in kernel-level mode. thus, if any such reverb is released, it should be available in source code in order to be ported to kernel-level (for instance, source code for Max's kXU library is not available).

    if you wish to participate in EAX development, let me know. you will probably need to sign an NDA with Creative Labs in order to access EAX3/4 SDK.

    E.
     
  12. Tiger M

    Tiger M kX user

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    you mean from the creative effects DLLs (which I know has been implemented as a kX console function) or something else?

    I'm not interested in EAX, rather in using these nice optimized reverbs for musical purposes
     
  13. Eugene Gavrilov

    Eugene Gavrilov kX Project Lead Programmer and Coordinator

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    >> which I know has been implemented as a kX console function

    there's a different tool that extracts the effects directly from the DSP
    [with all DSP register values]
    the dump can be then used for 'restoring' the effect into .DA form using DSP dump file and Creative labs .DLL

    >> I'm not interested in EAX, rather in using these nice optimized reverbs for musical purposes

    practically all reverb authors have the same opinion. that's why there's no eax still :)

    E.
     
  14. Verbo

    Verbo New Member

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    Somebody know, where i can download the Eax4 SDK, but not include the Creative's web-site!?
     
  15. pzad

    pzad New Member

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    AFAIK you need sign NDA to get EAX3 SDK ok EAX4 SDK. Only way is through creative web-site.
     
  16. Eugene Gavrilov

    Eugene Gavrilov kX Project Lead Programmer and Coordinator

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    the SDK itself doesn't contain enough information in order to re-implement EAX1,2,3,4
     

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