frames

Discussion in 'General Software Discussion' started by brc64, Apr 9, 2003.

?

Do you like web pages with frames?

  1. Yes, they're very useful

    10 vote(s)
    34.5%
  2. No, there's usually a better way to do it

    19 vote(s)
    65.5%
  1. brc64

    brc64 Zeeky H. Bomb

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    I've been debating with a friend of mine for a while now over his use of frames in every site he's ever made. All of his sites follow the same format... a small vertical frame on the left side for navigation, content on the right.

    Now, in my opinion, frames are fairly useless and make most sites look "cheap". But what does my opinion matter? :p

    You're a bunch of crazy web design people... what is your opinion on the matter? Frames or no frames?

    - Me
     
  2. Asmoday

    Asmoday Demonic

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    I like it better without frames....
     
  3. ToshiroOC

    ToshiroOC Unbiased.

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    Frames are the devil, <div> tags and tables are your friend...
     
  4. Jeff

    Jeff Yarr... I be blind!

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    There are few places frames are useful, when used in those places they are really good... (I can't think of many good places right now) other than that, they suck, don't use them.
     
  5. Matth

    Matth Flash Banner Hater

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    The advantage of frames, as it sounds like they are being used....

    1. Keep just ONE copy of the navigation, and not have to update it in each page.
    2. Not refreshing the unchanged navigation for every page load (though you may WANT to add a highlight, button down or something)

    Disadvantages:
    1. Bookmarking
    2. Search engines
    3. browsers that don't handle frames well (is if that's going to be much)


    Alternatives?

    1. Embedding an IFRAME - though less well supported than FRAMES, it keeps the page bookmarkable
    2. Using some form of auto-composer to paste in navigation to each page
    3. Using a Java or Flash applet for navigation

    If using frames, be sure to provide relevant conten in "NOFRAMES" - you'd be amazed how often the search engines have the synopsis as "This page uses frames, but your browser doesn't support them".
    If the pages make sense without frames, provide a non-frame linkage in the "NOFRAMES" part of yopur frame layout.

    And by the same token, if you insist on using FLASH, JAVA, Javascript or other technologies, either make the page work without them, or provide a usable No-whatever link - before using fancy technologies, ask "does this NEED them" - and if it does need them, use the RIGHT technology.
     
  6. Malus

    Malus BSD SMASH!

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    Just use PHP to make a templating system. You'll have the same navigation on every page then.

    Personally, I hate frames. Long live <div> and <table>.
     
  7. UberLord

    UberLord A Legend in Underwear

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    You can simulate the frame effect using the position: absolute CSS style and adding an autoscroll to it, Except it don't work under IE unless you specify the exact size of the DIV.
     
  8. Jeff

    Jeff Yarr... I be blind!

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    Hopefully the next version of IE will support max-height and min-height properly.
     
  9. UberLord

    UberLord A Legend in Underwear

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    Hopefully it might support PNG alpha channel as well - or is this just a pipe dream? :bleh:
     
  10. neilm

    neilm New Member

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    I voted no cause I hate frames to be honest. There isn't anything worse than having a lot of scroll bars in one screen.. but yea, they can sorta look nice if done properly, but even then I still don't like it.
     
  11. Gkow Worm

    Gkow Worm New Member

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    I'd agree with that
     
  12. WyreTheWolf

    WyreTheWolf Wolfish Bastard

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    LONG LIVE PHOENIX BROWSER! Am I correct in assuming that Phoenix is a Gecko engine browser? It is part of the Mozilla development site.... what are the major differences between Phoenix, and Mozilla. IE randomly crashes on me... Phoenix crashed once while running a java proggy... but only that once. and I agree with the general population ... Frames are of SATAN!!!!! They all must die!
     
  13. UberLord

    UberLord A Legend in Underwear

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    It's been renamed to FireBird due to prior trademarks for Phoenix

    Yes

    Phoenix/Firebird is a browser only
    Mozilla is the browser/mail/news/chat/html composer swiss army knife

    Mozilla will be using FireBird for their default browser soon and seperating the mail/news into something called Thunderbird
     
  14. WyreTheWolf

    WyreTheWolf Wolfish Bastard

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    Thanks for the info Uber... I just went to download the newest nightly build.. and now have a nifty "Mozilla Firebird" tag on the top of the browser.
     
  15. EmXtrix

    EmXtrix New Member

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    Frames are good for beginners, but I think dHTML, JavaScript, and the rest can get the job done more efficiently
     

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