Gay marrage on the ballots in some states...

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Forum' started by The_Neon_Cowboy, Nov 7, 2004.

  1. The_Neon_Cowboy

    The_Neon_Cowboy Well-Known Member

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    Did anyone else notice this:

    In other states defining marriage between a man in a woman took place as well, such as California (like 90% for 10% against) they had this done in previous elections and passed!



    Seems the MAGORITY wants Marriage “Defined†clearly that way. So it appears bush's administrations trying to get it into the constitution was in the best interests and with the support of the majority they attempted to do so.



    With out it being added to the US. Constitution it can be challenged and changed by any nickel and dime gay activist judge. That’s why the states are amending their own constitutions!



    What do you guys think of this? Because it’s likely the bill that got tabled will reappear and undoubtedly pass…

    (even john kerry said he belives marage is "between an man and a woman"
    of course earlier he bashed bush for it and opposed defineing it. takeing the position of supporting gay marrage. before he was against it [​IMG] )
     
  2. raid517

    raid517 New Member

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    You guys just don't understand the meaning of the term 'democracy' do you? It isn't just supposed to be about protecting the 'rights and interests' of the majority it is supposed to be about protecting the rights of everyone - including all of the many minorities of our societies as well. I would say that putting a question like that to the vote at all is an abuse of the very founding principals of democracy itself. Even if you don't agree with it - it shouldn't be up to you to force your view on others - particularly when the people who are being legislated against are never ever likely to be able to form a majority. Gay people are a minority with society and that is the way it is always likely to stay - but that does not mean that simply because a form of mob rule has been applied that they are not in actual fact still entitled to the same rights as everyone else.

    GJ
     
  3. ToshiroOC

    ToshiroOC Unbiased.

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    Murderers are a minority within society, but their rights and interests are deservedly restricted. The key here is whether or not the people being restricted are being restricted to protect the freedoms of others, and in the case of gay marriage, no one needs to be 'protected' from gay marriage for the sake of their assured rights and freedoms. Therefore, gay marriage doesn't pass my personal litmus test for a law that the govt. should enact.

    However, the demagogues who passed the laws obviously disagree with me.
     
  4. raid517

    raid517 New Member

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    Well I don't think comparing gay people to murderes is really a very valid comparision. I think even some very right wing people would find that a less than credible way to talk about gay people. Whether you think it's a choice or not what people choose to do in regard to their personal lives (providing it doesn't harm anyone else - which I don't think gay people really do) hardly qualifies as a comparable crime to that of murder.

    If is like the big kid who always beats up the little kid on the playground at school. The little kid generally stands practically no chance of winning - but just because the big kid is bigger, do you seriously believe that this means that the big kid is always right? Some people appear to believe that it does. Asian people, Jews, japanese people, Mormons and Amish people are also all minorities in Western society - however no one goes around making similar comparisions to them - and no one goes around saying that the state should legislate against them either - simply for the mere fact that they are a minority. Gay people could NEVER have won this vote - because there simply aren't enough of them to make winning a viable proposition. If you were interested in pursuing a real democratic ideal, in order for any such vote to be fair, the people you ought to ask is gay people themselves. Even then if a vote could be conducted and restricted completely to the gay community - there is no real gurantee that they would vote against such a proposition either. Nonetheless this is still a more accurate model of the way democratic systems are supposed to work - instead of always merely imposing the will of the majority (or the mob) over the rights and interests of the few. Democracy is supposed to be about government by the people for ALL of the people - so that no matter how few in number they may be, their views and opinions will be as fairly represented as anyone else's.

    GJ
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2004
  5. revolutionary

    revolutionary New Member

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    12 of 50 states is hardly a "MAGORITY". What did the other 38 states think?
     
  6. Sandok

    Sandok New Member

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    Bah why do you all get so hyped abt gay mariage stuff?
     
  7. TJ-

    TJ- New Member

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    well i dont want to get started on this subject cause last time i started a thread on gay marriage it didnt go to well. Whats after gay marriage,,,, marring family members...? it will never end.... The line needs to be drawn somewhere before its to late. Soon the whole world will become one big jerry springer show....
     
  8. raid517

    raid517 New Member

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    It wouldn't suprise me if most of those people voting for this proposition were already family members There might even be the odd farm animal in there as well.

    Like I said, no one would take seriously any ballot that say for example expressly forbade black people from getting married - or that asked if maybe all people of Arab decent shoould be deported from the country - even if this might pass in some states. It is a fundamental abuse of the priveliges that democracy bestows upon us. No wonder some of you people are happy to watch many of your rights being erroded - because a lot of you don't even seem to know what a democracy is supposed to be. The current proposition is very much like a group of union members - or for those that don't like unions a bunch of stockholders holding a meeting where they need to reach a decision that will have a fundamental impact on the way they live their lives. In a democracy it is nonsensical to imagine asking everyone else in the country (or in the state) what they should do - because clearly that decision is entirely up to them. The state - or the majority - no matter how large that majority may be (or may not be for that matter) should have no part in this decision making process at all.

    How can you claim to be exporting democracy to the rest of the world when you continue to allow abuses like this to happen?

    GJ
     
  9. Senor_Mota

    Senor_Mota 悪魔の方法

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    You know, all this "controversial" talk has got me thinkin' - WHY DOES ANYONE CARE? Marriage is an INSTITUTION, not a "defining trait". You CANNOT break the bond between a man and a woman - it's inevitable, until the END OF TIME, that men and women will love each other. Now "being gay", on the other hand, has become more of a PASSING FAD than a sexuality these days. I've noticed more people "coming out" at an earlier age - usually during puberty - when decisions like this are considered "SOCIALLY IMPORTANT". My Girlfriend's sister is "bi-curious", which to me just means that she gets drunk at a party with a bunch of guys who want to see her and her ugly-ass lesbian friend make out. WHOOPEEE!! :rolleyes: Anyways, to re-iterate my opinion, sex these days isn't about who it's with - it's who knows about it and which team you bat for. What ever happened to the good ol' days of sex being a sacred thing between a man and a woman? I HATE(it's a strong word, I know. But it's true) WHEN GAY PEOPLE WALK AROUND FLAUNTING THEIR SEXUALITY LIKE IT'S AN ARMANI SHOWFLOOR. Do straight people walk around screaming and femming out about how much they like the opposite sex? NO. I don't believe that "being gay" is a disease as much as it is a slight form of schitzophrenia - when you start acting and thinking that you're "gay" for so long, you're really going to convince yourself that you are "gay".

    Personally, it's all a matter of inept social behaviors - most people who are "gay" have been rejected their whole life by family, friends, girls , guys, whatever. You can't be born with it, you can't get it from a drinking fountain, you can't possibly think you're serious about it...

    Because you've probably lost your mind. ;)
    Don't call this "forcing my opinion upon someone else". You can choose to read it just like people can choose to be "gay". It's all up to you.
     
  10. raid517

    raid517 New Member

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    Well the reason gay people shout so loudly is because they have to put up with people like you every day they live their lives. People who think that it's ok to butt their nose in on what people do in their bedrooms, people who would do everything they could to restrict the right's of gay people and prevent them from going about their lives in a normal and peaceful way, people who spead ignorant attitudes such as being gay is a choice - but wait it's not a choice because it's a mental illnesss - no wait itn't not a mental illness it's really a social disease... I mean for cripes sake make up your mind... And if it was just a choice then how come it's not a choice that everyone feels able to make? Why isn't there many more gay people than there are? Assuming it is a choice then presumably it would be easy for you to make that choice too? I mean are you gay in any way - could you make that choice - and if not why not? Calling gay people menatlly ill is also baseless. The American psychiatric society declassified homosexuality as a mental illness over 3 decades ago. No serious researcher these days continues to make these claims. Social disease? There is even less evidence that you can somehow 'catch' gayness by simply being in the company of gay people. Again there is no credible studies that show this to be the case. Someone here in the past took to posting endless links to right wing cristian sponsored web sites as though this was supposed to be a credible source of data - but in reality no serious scientific study has ever been able to prove any of these claims.

    In reality no one really knows what gayness is. But then no one really knows what being human is either. Telling people that they should be forced to make the same choices as you just because you do not agree with the way they live their lives is tatamount to a dictatorship - even if it is the dictatorship of the majority. Democracies are supposed to exist to protect minorities against many of the predudices that you are openly displaying.

    In any case going by some of the things you said and your ativar, it seems that the concept of lesbians and what they do is of much more interest to you than you are admitting. Like most guys I supect that you might be quite 'amused' to watch lesbians in action - providing they were pretty. How do you explain this kind of hypocracy I wonder? Or going by your definition of what being gay is, does this mean that you might really be gay too?

    We have been through these topics many times in the past here. I don't think were are likely to break any new ground any time soon.

    GJ
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2004
  11. Dom

    Dom New Member

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    Why do you care?
    Tell that to men and women who get divorced and re-married like it's going out of style.
    Yeah, it's only been around since early man.
    That's because it's socially accepable now.
    Okay...
    Homosexuality has been around before the three major religions. Before it was sacred.
    I know a lot of straight men who do. You just don't notice it because you're a straight man (I assume) it's second nature to you, you ignore it.

    Is womanizing flunting?

    Straight people make-out in public all the time - flaunting?

    Gay people "flaunt" because they can now, they haven't always been able to.

    Perhaps you're just acting straight then?
    Actually, many scientists believe being gay IS something you're born as. It's most likely in your genetic make up. Like brown eyes.
    When'd you choose to be straight?
     
  12. Sandok

    Sandok New Member

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    I can understand why it went bad for you :rolleyes:

    What abt normal marriage? Does it stop you from marring a sister? different sex so nope... Dude dont' be an ass... Gay mariages are not incest or anythign :bleh:
     
  13. Senor_Mota

    Senor_Mota 悪魔の方法

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    The funny thing is is that you made your reply sound more like a personal attack against my opinion than a reply to my post...when did you "choose" to be straight? I simply gave a rhetorical statement of how I feel. :rolleyes:

    Anyways, in reply:

    I don't really care. It's something I deal with everyday that's ultimately annoying. ;)

    That doesn't have much to do with the point I was trying to make. People have just made it too easy to divorce each other...or maybe it's the fact that people aren't in LOVE when they get married anymore. My parents have been married for 26 years...and they haven't thought about divorce once. Let's just say most people don;t know what they want or need from a relationship anymore.

    I never said "being gay" was "new". I said it is a passing fad. It's "cool" to be gay now. You can see the "trend" in T.V., movies, the internet, etc.

    Yes, but that doesn't mean that marriage between man and woman didn't come first - we wouldn't BE HERE if it didn't happen. It is SACRED in the sense that mankind could not have began without procreation. Surely an "intelligent" person like yourself would think so... ;)

    Most guys who go around announcing "how much they need some p*ssy" or about "how they got laid last night" have some issues...I don't go around telling people about my sex life. :) So I guess everyone who does it annoys me then. Womanizing is for insecure people who could never understand a true love/sex relationship, and "PDA"(Public Displays of Affection) aren't usually something I'm interested in no matter who does it. Why make it more obvious? You don't have to be so goddamn FLAMBOYANT about it.

    No, it's actually an EMOTION I feel for a woman - not a sexual desire. Anyone can have sexual desires, whether they be gay or straight, but LOVE only exists between man and woman. Sexual perversion distorts that view - no matter how you look at it.

    Maybe we should look at it as more of a genetic defect - sort of like Sickle Cell Disease. Homosexual people usually have an imbalance of their natural chemicals when they're born - thus leading me to believe it's more of a mental disorder than an actual feeling.

    I never CHOSE - I've always thought women were the way to go.

    There's a reason for this "natural puzzle".

    Insert Tab A into Slot B. :)
     
  14. Senor_Mota

    Senor_Mota 悪魔の方法

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    God RAID, you are always so right with your contextual opinions and inability to read between the lines! COOL! :rolleyes:

    Anywho, the point you made was pointless, because you have simply discriminated upon me by "assuming" I am indeed "gay". No sir, I am not. I reserve the right to be a hypocrite. I use the term "Thrown to the Lesbians" as a joke to relate in the fact that I am hopeless when it comes to sexuality. It's a little thing called cynical sarcasm, okay? Now quit speaking out of turn.

    Sure you do! Everyone does! It's this silly thing called life, buddy! You go through it every day! You obviously have more problems with it then I do, simply stating that you "don't know what is to be human" and to use the ol' "reverse" tactic of "You're the gay one!" that we all know so well from Third Grade. Do me a favor, get a life, get a real opinion, and don't take offense to the written word. The pen may be mightier than the sword, but hey, they're just words. It's up to you how you look at it.

    This whole arguement is also why I don't care. It's just friggin' funny to watch you simpletons react, that's all.

    TYPE AWAY, SIMIANS!! I'll be waiting for your nonsensical and generic reply. ;)
     
  15. bap4201

    bap4201 New Member

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    God bless you GJ

    God bless you GJ. I wish you all the riches of this world. People like you certainly deserve it. I thank you sir, for respecting my freedoms. I was so moved by your response, I had to become a member and let you know how grateful I am for people like you in this world. You give this world hope. Thank you.
     
  16. raid517

    raid517 New Member

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    Mmm... You actually think you're clever don't you?

    Edit: Dude you need to calm down with your inflamatory tone a little - a lot of the language you use is more appropriate for the flame warzone than it is for here. Try to stick to the issues and not get so over heated about things.

    GJ
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2004
  17. raid517

    raid517 New Member

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    Lol well I hope you enjoy your stay. I am certainly not the only person who thinks this way. There are many more people here who feel really quite strongly about these things too.

    Best regards,

    GJ
     
  18. pr0digal jenius

    pr0digal jenius Delete Me

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    I tend to agree with RAID fairly often....and Dom appears to as well :p


    lol...Is till don't see why there is such a to do about gay marriage. 'marriage' is a religious thing...so I believe it shoudl remain heterosexual, btu as far as the tax breaks and insurance..>i think gay people desreve thema s much as me
     
  19. Senor_Mota

    Senor_Mota 悪魔の方法

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    Changed your tone a little as well, hmmm? :D

    I'd like to know about the "language I'm using that belongs in the FW. I never swore, and I made a general statement about the context of the previous reply.

    Yes, I do. ;)

    It's all just words, man. Don't be offended by a simple paragraph. Remember that little rhyme from school -

    That's why I never get REALLY angry over the internet - it's all a bunch of bullsh!t anyways. Now if this were in person...it would be a different story...but in real life I'm the nicest guy you could ever meet. Things on the internet just seem more hostile than normal. :)

    Move on, man. Keep on truckin'.
     
  20. raid517

    raid517 New Member

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    "Simpletons, Simians, Third Grade" and so on are really quite agressive inflamatory terms. Inflamatory - meaning 'likely to inspire heated and possibly abusive arguments'. Heated abusive agruments should be conducted in the Flame Warzone. Really all I'm saying is it might be an idea to at least make an effort to stay calm. It makes debating the topics much less stressful for everyone.

    GJ
     

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