Gay marrage on the ballots in some states...

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Forum' started by The_Neon_Cowboy, Nov 7, 2004.

  1. Senor_Mota

    Senor_Mota 悪魔の方法

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    Yeah, yeah. :D

    I'll "pipe down" for the time being.

    I didn't think this phrase was that bad...I'll strike it from the record. :D

    Sorry, I couldn't resist. :p
     
  2. ToshiroOC

    ToshiroOC Unbiased.

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    Mota, don't play stupid. You know that your statements were inflammatory, and calling us simpletons may just be words, but nevertheless they get in the way of having a good debate, so don't use them.
     
  3. The_Neon_Cowboy

    The_Neon_Cowboy Well-Known Member

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    Marriage has always been a foundation of civilizations this begins making a “mockery†of that foundation. The definition of a marriage “is†and has always between a man and a woman.


    Though marriage is and was a religious institution it’s a legal institution as well (the government’s recognition and adoption) .though the same thing though a “real†marriage is performed by a priest not a justice of the piece. Through those same religions gay ness is not accepted and is a deadly sin.



    Look at it this way. If you allow gay marriage because you believe they should have the freedom to do so correct? Then you must also cater to the bisexuals and have 3 way marriages! Other wise you’re stomping on their rights. Same thing goes for a group of people that want to get married you’ve got to allow that to. Then you’ve got to allow those wishing to marry farm animals and cats and dogs to do so as well. (And claim benefits) Same goes for the fathers the want to marry their daughters, mothers and sons etc….Just meld the foundation of society to the sexual deviants. One the can of worms is open it can not be closed.



    Once you start reconsidering it then you saying it acceptable and ok behavior. Then you must think their should be a “gay sex ed†in our schools. Basically you’re going to increase the amount of sexual defiant with the promotions of gay marriage.



    And the key here they don’t want to be married for the same reasons as man and a woman. One reason and one reason alone “benefitsâ€. They already have civil unions they should end it at that. Why should we cater to the 1% tile and less in our security? What the needs of the few outweigh what’s best for the many?

    they didn't have the issue initive on thier battot this year. Like I said before states like calafornia were for defineing marrage 90% to a lowly 10%. in previos ballot initives, so they have allready defined marage as beteen a man and a woman. For the record California is the most populated state in the entire USA.

    (also the gay marrage "fisaco" in calafornia by a gay mayor and gay activist judge. WAS ILLEGAL by their own constition and my a magority vote of their people. those unlawfull marages and were later were invalidated by the sepreme court)

    yep it becomes a zoo....

    Did you ever hear the line “till death do you part†? In the eyes of the church and of religion THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A DEVORCE. So remarrying is ADULTRY as long as your or wife/husband is alive.



    Divorce was started by a KING in England who stared his own church because NO Church would not allow divorce (“till death do you partâ€) and he didn’t want to kill his wife, have her beheaded etc… Of course modern day again adopted by the government… but in the eyes of your faith the real behind of marrage it's “till death do you partâ€






    But the thing is they not wanting to get married, if you say you can get married but no benefits they wouldn’t do it. Why? There after one thing the “benefits†it taints their argument. Instead of staying we want the right! They are really saying I want them benefits! They already have civil unions but they don't like it, No benifits... :D
     
  4. Senor_Mota

    Senor_Mota 悪魔の方法

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    Hey, I agreed with you, Neon...why didn't you include me? :D

    Sorry Toshi. ;)

    I can re-iterate a point over and over again, but I didn't make it personal - Dom did. I just reacted as I normally would. (RVW)

    No harm meant, none done.

    Other than that, I stick to my original statements(except the mean parts).
     
  5. pr0digal jenius

    pr0digal jenius Delete Me

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    they deserve the benefits just like everyone else...do they not?
     
  6. raid517

    raid517 New Member

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    Well I'm not going to argue with neon. If only because we really have had this debate before many times - and all of his points have been comprehensively addressed and refuted. Neon's tactic is generally to make very long posts filled with common misconceptions - so many indeed that it tends to take a disproportionate amount of time to answer them all. But if anyone wants to dig through the achives and supply the usual round of answers - or maybe someone has a new angle, hey feel free to give it your best shot.

    The only thing worth noting is how little anyone here has moved on these issues in the two year plus time period that many of us have been here.

    Some attitudes are it seems almost impossible to change.

    GJ
     
  7. raid517

    raid517 New Member

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    One thing I will say though is that I agree with pr0digal jenius, insomuch that in an equal society of equal people, why shouldn't gay people be entitled to equal benefits? They pay taxes too, so why not? Why should you be allowed to benefit from the taxes they pay while they can't? Doesn't this equate to an unreasonable tax on gay people?

    GJ
     
  8. pr0digal jenius

    pr0digal jenius Delete Me

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    exactly...from a legal/political viewpoint, gay marriage is perfectly acceptable. The issue comes however when one begins definig marriage as 'holy matrimony' as most religions refer to homosexuality as a sin of the flesh in soem way shape or form.

    It's all ethics, not politics. I say we call it somethign else, give them the same benefits, and be done with it. "Conjugal Companionship" or something..I don't care.
     
  9. Dom

    Dom New Member

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    Actually, it is a legitimate question. You are implying that gay people choose to be that way. Using your logic, certainly you must of chosen to be straight.
     
  10. Dom

    Dom New Member

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    Who cares? This is America. People do not have to be religious.
    America is not old England. We are not ruled by a king (though some would disagree).
     
  11. YAYitsAndrew

    YAYitsAndrew Anti-Piracy Poster Boy

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    There's supposed to be a specific seperation of church and state. These redefinements of marriage go against that seperation.
     
  12. pr0digal jenius

    pr0digal jenius Delete Me

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    exactly....thus why the government should recognize 'marriage' as an equal thing; gay, straight, lesbo, bi, transgender....whatever.

    Leave the morality in church, and give them their damned benefits
     
  13. raid517

    raid517 New Member

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    It is historically just plumb wrong (as ever) anyway.
     
  14. TJ-

    TJ- New Member

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    dude read what i wrote more carefully. i said that if gay marriages are allowed , what will people want to do next, marry family members or even their pets.. where do u draw the line...
     
  15. raid517

    raid517 New Member

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    I think you draw the line at gay marriage. These other things you refer to are things that most people would find impossible to accept. They are largely taboo subjects that have over the years been shunned and seen as reprehesible. I mean we might not be able to agree on much but wanting to marry your pet dog is just plumb weird. A whole lot less people feel that way about gay people. They have been with us from the beginning of time, everyone probably knows someone who is gay - which kind of leads one to assume that they must be quite a normal part of our society.

    In any case how do you explain registry office weddings? (Or marriges conducted by Elvis lookalikes?). If marriage is a holy union, what are these about? The reality is that they have nothing to do with God or religion or anything like that - indeed they were originally instigated as a means whereby the Church and state could be clearly shown to be seperate and where peolple could nonetheless enter into a civil and legal uinion - without having to worry about whether the church thought such a union was 'moral' or not. The Church has tried though history to stop all kinds of people from marrying - blacks, poor people, divorcees, recovering alchoholics, young pregnant women - infact anybody with a slightly checkered history. So screw what the Church has to say - they are traditionally hardly the most tollerant or forgiving force in society. Civil uinions were a way for people to overcome the predudices and restrictions imposed by the Church and to allow people to marry anyway. So why not allow Gay people to get married via civil ceremonies only? That way it has bog all to do with the church, or their preverse sense of morality or anything like that. It certainly doesn't need to qualify as a 'holy matrimony' - so all your objections are immediately made irrelevant.

    As for this thing you guys always get stuck on with people marrying their pets or family members - well clearly there are good genetic reasons to not allow family members to marry - because this means that genetic illnesses would become much more prevalent (the spreading of genetic illnesses is statistically much more prevalent in family members than it is if you marry someone outside your family. And marrying animals is just stupid. To get married you have to be able to offer your legal consent. So unless you have seen any talking donkeys (except on TV) that isn't something that is going to happen any time soon.

    No one is suggesting throwing out the rule book. Only adjusting it a little to reflect reality. It is undoubtedly a change that is long overdue.

    GJ
     
  16. Senor_Mota

    Senor_Mota 悪魔の方法

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    I don't think we will. I think BattleAxe had a good point; and this is exactly the direction I expected the people of America to turn to - how far is too far? You all notice the ever-slight increase in sexual innuendos, nudity, and homosexuality on T.V. and movies, and even in video games. Eventually all of our "safeguards" will be loosened and we'll be stripped bare of all restraint(like the U.K. or Japan: nude women in commercials and magazines, the Legislation to legalize the even distribution of Marijuana, etc.). It's kind of like sex in itself...all we need at first is a little tiny tip of the finger to stimulate ourselves. Then it starts getting harder and harder to appease your appetite. So you use your whole finger...and move on, slowly, until it takes a whole fist or an arm to "quench your need". Desensitization of the mental stimulus that we require every day will just make things boring. If you made all drugs legal, homosexuality was completely accepted, and you could go buy a sheep to f*ck for two dollars right down the street, what else could be in "controversy'? That's why rape and murder are accepted in Japan - they have Cartoon Porn with tentacle beasts raping women. Now that's a little too far...
     
  17. raid517

    raid517 New Member

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    Man your brain is freaking warped! :D (No offense intended :D). You sound like you are jerking off while you are writing that. And then you complain about the legalisation of drugs - where only yesterday you you were shouting about how it would be such a good idea. (Hemp is still cannabis whether you like it or not). People have been going on like you from the beginning of time about 'the decline in moral standards'. Society hasn't fallen appart yet. And as I said, to get married you do need to provide legal consent - so unless you think you have the power to talk to the animals I don't think that is going to happen any time soon. (If you do think you can talk to the animals, I would lay off smoking that grass you are on pretty damn quick if I were you). And murder and rape are NOT legal in Japan. That is just plumb nonsense. Then you compain about Japanese Manga cartoons - yet your signature appears to show that you are a fan of them. Are you sure you didn't get your murder and rape fantasies from reading too many of these?

    GJ
     
  18. Senor_Mota

    Senor_Mota 悪魔の方法

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    Yesterday you freaked out about my "heated and inflammatory" posts, and yet you made more of a personal attack upon a personal opinion. Remember what I was saying about "not to take things personally"? Well, you've made a hypocrite out of yourself again. :rolleyes:

    Actually, I was making a comparison to the impending change of law amongst European and South American countries and how it could influence change here in America...not about how drugs will corrupt us. :rolleyes:

    Why does everyone instantly assume that all people who smoke pot are delusionally confused people? I can obviously hold a decent conversation with you. I can debate all goddamn day about the benefits of pot. I can try to make a point...but that doesn't mean you're going to get it. I don't even know what the hell the "it sounds like you were jacking off when you wrote that" comment was about...in fact, it disturbed me rather deeply that you pictured me masturbating. I was making a comparison in how it takes more and more to keep people entertained these days. I wasn't making some comment that would "turn you on". You've got some definate issues to struggle with here...I don;t even want to be around when that happens, though.

    I never said they were legal...just socially accepted.

    Actually, a MANGA is a japanese comic or a collection of assorted comics. An Anime is a feature, mini-series or series in the Japanese vein of art(which is what Trigun is, my sig). And then there's HENTAI, or japanese cartoon porn. Hentai literally means "pervert" in Japanese, and it's some of the sickest sh!t I've ever seen.

    I'm not concerned about moral standings within our culture(it's already warped enough) as much as I am with the things that my daughters will face - and I know it will probably be a great worse than the issues I faced when I was younger. You kind of have a different standpoint when you have children, that's all.
     
  19. raid517

    raid517 New Member

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    Oh comeon... the part I found a little warped (and funny) was your fairly graphic depiction of the process of masterbation. You seemed almost 'excited' by the subject you were talking about. I just found it a little strange I guess. You even go on in your last paragraph to describe yourself as warped. So you can't really complain. It was simply meant in good natured jest.

    Whatever... But it was given in the context of an argument concerning your preception that standards in society are in decline. (If you thought that mate, you ought to have lived through the 70's. Before the dawn of AIDS, people were virtually screwing like bunnies on the streets). How can you complain about this while possibly taking a few puffs on a nice fat spliff yourself?

    And murder and rape are most certainly NOT socially acceptable in Japan. That really does seem like a drug/comic book inspired perception. Japan is a largely very peaceful and highly developed society. If you look through a lot of English publications you can find some equally sick stuff - but it probably just isn't so well illustrated as a lot of Japanese stuff. You certainly wouldn't make the assumption from reading this that this is the way that our entire society works.

    Anyway for someone with such a warped perception of Japan as a country - you certainly have quite an indepth understanding of their comic book literature.

    However I must caution you that reading comic books is not the best way to gain an understanding about how a particular country - or the world works. This certainly seems to be where you have aqcuired much of your information from.

    GJ
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2004
  20. Senor_Mota

    Senor_Mota 悪魔の方法

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    Once again.

    Japanese culture has a great deal of rape and murder related pornography. They have cartoon porn, for christ's sake. You can watch a show on Japanese T.V. called "Goroji's Castle" that has contestants competing against in each in such events as eating warm cattle dung, pulling up young girl's skirts to to take snapshots for points, and dragging each other around by the balls. What was that you were saying...

    How can that be? They attacked the US in World War II, and the pilots were chained into their airplanes to commit kamikaze missions. That's peaceful and advanced? I think we're going to need a history book for this one...The Japanese culture embraces suicide, vengeance killings, the rape and plunder of innocent villages, demons are regarded as higher beings than gods are, and they eat fried rats and dogs for dinner. I know all this because I have a friend who lived in the Tokyo/Asakusa area for two years. There's gangs, prostitutes, murders, and pollution just like anywhere else. Peaceful and advanced? More like they're just like everyone else. Rape and murder are integral parts of their culture. You can't deny it. It's not an opinion derived from a comic book, it's a part of their cultural history.

    Why argue an undeniable fact?
     

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