Hitler's Germany

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Forum' started by FuNsTeR, Feb 15, 2011.

  1. FuNsTeR

    FuNsTeR Caledonian and Proud

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    not the nicest regime ... but for some reason nazi germany is seen as the pinnacle of evil .... not that i am defending nazi Germany but their were far worse regimes .. take Stalin's USSR (CCCP) killed over 25 million of his OWN people ... forced relocation of entire ethnic groups from one part of the soviet union to another ... the entire population living in fear of being the next victims of stalins brutal regime .... 7 million deaths in Ukraine before WW2 had even started ..... as churchill stated we have sided with 1 devil to defeat another .... history has proven it was a fatal mistake ... we should have fought our own war and allowed nazi germany and the soviet union destroy each other ... instead of allowing the soviet union to grow stronger and more brutal .

    then their was Chairman Mao of The Peoples Republic of China under the auspice of the cultural revolution 45 million chinese perished ... even still in modern China people are murdered for speaking out of turn or sent to work camps to die with no hope of release
     
  2. Neshi

    Neshi HH's cuddly Blue Bear

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    your point?
     
  3. FuNsTeR

    FuNsTeR Caledonian and Proud

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    my point is China under mao and the Soviet union under stalin were not and stil not as vilified as Germany under hitler ... though the other two regimes were more evil and murdered more of their own civilians ... yet modern day Germans are still to live with the stigma 65 years on
     
  4. synthesis204

    synthesis204 New Member

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    Excuse me? Stalin's SU was FAR worse off. Stalin killed over twice as many people and ruled over twice as long as Hitler. The Great Silence put in place after Stalin's death gripped the country and ruined families. Hitler's victims and perpetrators got closure very soon after his regime with the Nuremberg Trials, while Stalin's victims had nothing for decades.

    Hitler is the most overblown evil crybaby ever.

    PS: My honors senior thesis was on the Russian Great Silence in comparison to the Holocaust, so... >_>
     
  5. blibbax

    blibbax nahm8

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    Describing Hitler's vilification as overblown might be going a little far, but yes, we do hate him more than other evil people in history. It's probably due to wartime propaganda.
     
  6. Neshi

    Neshi HH's cuddly Blue Bear

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    hmmm.. I don't hate Hitler. Hate is such a heavy word...
    He has done some good stuff for the country as well, although that naturally withers when put next to his evil deeds.

    Stalin was pretty bad, but the reason nobody seems to really know about that is that it is not in the middle of europe and no other countries were involved.
     
  7. FuNsTeR

    FuNsTeR Caledonian and Proud

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    i am not defending Hitler ..... he was a very evil man ... i just don't feel it is right that only the youth of Germany are reminded of their country's dark past.

    by the end of WW2 the USSR had become a even bigger threat ... a menacing threat that lasted over 4 decades
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2011
  8. blibbax

    blibbax nahm8

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    It's not only the youth of Germany that are reminded of their country's dark past.

    I live in the UK, which hasn't even been mentioned as an evil place so far, but I spent plenty of time in school listening to and reading about talk of the slave trade, Britain's failure to bomb the concentration camps, colonial exploitation, the inhumane fire bombing of Dresden, etc.
     
  9. FuNsTeR

    FuNsTeR Caledonian and Proud

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    it was actually us that started the use of concentration camps in the boer war .... and it was the turks that first gassed people in confined places (ie caves) and their target was the ethnic Armenian population in Turkey ... almost 2 million were gassed in the 1920s
     
  10. Falstaff

    Falstaff Old Codger

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    Which President in America do you wish to blame for nearly wiping out the culture of the native people? We really did not see body counts until the beginning of the 19th century, but as so many mentioned, the regimes of the former dictators are replete with stories of entire towns, cultures, infrastructure completely wiped away by the "bad guys".
    I think it is easier to compare former Pres. Roosevelt and contemporary leaders of his time. We all know that Diplomacy and politics were the province of amateurs and royalty prior to WWII, with the exception of the United States.
    Two of three very powerful leaders rose to the world scene in 1930s, Stalin being a product of political turmoil of Russia.
    One was Franklin Delano Roosevelt and the other was Adolf Hitler. Both these leaders had many similarities and differences. The similarities between Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Adolf Hitler are as follows. First, both were leaders by symbolic and appeal. FDR used were freedom symbols such as the bald eagle and used kind words to get people to support his ideas. Hitler and his Nazi party used the swastika and other militaristic symbols and used strong words in his speeches.
    Of course both wanted to improve their countries. FDR wanted to fix the economy and Hitler wanted Germany regain its honor.
    Third, both were leaders during WWII, and struggled with sensitive matters of political alliances, occupation and creating temporary relationships with Russia and Stalin. In fact, regardless of which country you governed in Europe or the western world, you had to deal with Stalin. China on the other hand, still fought a war with the Nationalist Chinese. It was difficult to choose sides, but within the context of world events, the U.S. were occasionally "the bad guys".
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2011
  11. Senor_Mota

    Senor_Mota 悪魔の方法

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    I liked reading this. :)
     
  12. Neshi

    Neshi HH's cuddly Blue Bear

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    Falstaff.. going that far back you encounter the problem that "history gets written by the victorious" so black pages in countries history get ignored.

    For a long time, the inhumane actions of the Dutch (my motherland) in Indonesia have been ignored by schools and only taught them the 'good' stuff. My grandma still thinks we did only good things in Indonesia, bringing the natives educucation, healthcare etc. But the truth is that we enslaved the natives, exploiting them for spices, coffee and tea. This paid for the major part of the Dutch Golden Age. After the 2nd world war, when we lost Indonesia to Japan we waged a couple of wars to regain this goldmine in our control, killing many.
    Only after the US threatened to stop giving us the after war aid the dutch government conceded and gave them sovereignty.

    where did you get that idea?
    Youth in EVERY western European country gets reminded of Germany's, and hopefully their own, past.
    I had to learn European history starting from +- 10th century, and going into detail when all the european wars broke out and everybody changed alliance on whim. Had to familiarize myself with all dark secrets of all European countries (surrounding Holland; so that's France, Germany, Italy, England, Russia)
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2011
  13. synthesis204

    synthesis204 New Member

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    I find it stupid to bring in the UK or the US in this discussion, really. Every country in history has its faults, but the USSR and Nazi Germany were among the worst.

    The US had its firebombings in Nam, the nuke in Japan (which actually saved lives, ironically...), the Trail of Tears, Bear Creek Massacre, Japanese internment, and many other issues. We learn about these alongside UK and French failures in public school. However, even with their failures, they are among the more/most successful countries. To quote a famous man, democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.

    The point I was trying to make is that Hitler is considered the epitome of evil in many places, while Stalin 1up'd him in almost every way.
     
  14. Neshi

    Neshi HH's cuddly Blue Bear

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    I'm sure if you go further back in time, some emperors/kings/whatevers 1up'd Stalin in every way. But it wasn't documented.

    point is.. Hitler did it to other countries while Stalin did it in his own, which is why it isn't as notorious.
     
  15. Optix

    Optix Slave To Technology

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    I have a squirmy 2 year old on my lap so my apologies for not reading beyond the opening post.

    The reason why Nazi Germany was so vilified (aside from the whole genocide attempt) compared to Stalin's USSR or Mao's China is that North American media was not or is not welcome in either area. When the Nazi concentration camps were liberated there was members of the media in various companies that took pictures and shot video and all of this was all relayed back to the West. I'm sure if cameras were allowed into the seedy underbelly of the USSR during Stalin's rule or in China right now we'd be equally appalled.

    We all know the media is a powerful tool or an incredible cluster fuck able to sway popular opinion.

    That's my 2 cents.
     
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  16. FuNsTeR

    FuNsTeR Caledonian and Proud

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    tell that to the 1 million poles he had killed and a further 1 million transported to gulags in siberia and the murder of 22,000 polish officers and intellects at Katyn after Stalin carved up poland with Hitler and countless more massecredin 1944/46, and then their was massecres in latvia, lithuania, estonia, hungary, Czechslovakia, romania, bulgaria and eastern germany ... the exact total will never be fully known


    btw you left out Moa of China ... the biggest murderer of the 20th century
     
  17. synthesis204

    synthesis204 New Member

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    Stalin DID do it to his own, but also others. His plans for modernizing the economy killed millions of Russian peasants -- but he also destroyed major swathes of Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, etc. as explained so nicely by Funster.
     
  18. dj_stick

    dj_stick Apple Fanboy?

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    what I'm about to say might not be a popular sentiment, but from my reading over the years, a lot of the attention to such atrocities was focused on that suffered by the Jewish people under Hitler's reign, added to that is the amount of people of Jewish decent in "positions of power" in the US and other western nations that focused the attention on the plight of their kin, while demonising Hitler, and the media at the time followed suit.

    Understandably their situation was different, basically the Jewish were told in no uncertain terms, "You cannot live" while the victims of Stalin's expansion were just "in the way" of his imperial aspirations, but that doesn't make those who suffered and died under Stalin any less worthy of remembrance.
     
  19. dawgXdenta

    dawgXdenta Well-Known Member

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    I agree with everyone, Hitler was just the tip of the iceberg as I see it now the ice streches so far under the sea it reaches each and every one of us, not that we're as bad as Hitler but for the 1st time in history the masses have the power to steer history because knowledge is power, but we've been made impotent by laxity ,entertainment and our sensetivity to human suffereing nearly zero, our inclinations towards justice degraded towards accepting everything as 'nature' or 'genes', when the truth is our environment is something we shape and it shapes us. I'm bringing this argument home, not that we are responsible for all this mess, but collectively we can put an end to it.

    For that we have to believe in that, the media on the other hand is doing a marvelous job at killing our hopes and refocusing our attention to nonsense. A deadly cycle. I wonder in this day and age where are the Ghandi's and Malcom X's and Martin Luther Kings and J.F.kennedies, not afraid to speak against the imperial powers that dominate and rape our globe. We live in a weird age, where its like we have the Sword of Might within reach, but because we have been told its useless, we are weak and incapable of anything so much just we accept it. But the sword is right here, the internet is one of its sharp edges. Books knowledge information, science technology, the power is within grasp, the will and determination however lacking.

    This is what my eyes see......of every single one of us.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2011
  20. dawgXdenta

    dawgXdenta Well-Known Member

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    To me we live in the worst age, not because of injustice but because for the 1st time in history, we the average Joe's and Jane's have access to knowledge... but we aren't using it in the right way. I see things spiraling out of control again, its just matter of time, either us, our kids or grandkids, will witness it. I don't believe its near this other war, but there are many Stalins in the world now, many, Africa South America and China even America are all politically becoming increasingly corrupt.......its like there is a devil at work waiting to slot in another Hitler to stir things up one last time, and that war the reverberations of it will touch every land for many decades. So deep will be its scar that mankind will no longer wage war ............ i've been feeling like this for months sorry for being the sage of doom, but i think many of you see as I do, I hope we can do something positive before it comes to that...no rather I pray we do.
     
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