How do I enable cmss-3d for headphones?

Discussion in '3-D Audio' started by davidsh, Sep 5, 2013.

  1. davidsh

    davidsh New Member

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    Hello, new here ;)

    My title says it all. Should be simple, but dunno how or if it is possible at all. I have read it is... Please, please help me!
    I have the SB x-fi Live! card, which I bought second hand. The driver works, but that's about it.

    I am running win7 64-bit btw...

    Tanks :p
     
  2. davidsh

    davidsh New Member

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  3. Jac

    Jac Well-Known Member

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    I have gotten out of touch with audio hardware over the last few years, I have had an X-fi stuck in my machine since around 2005 so haven't really needed to worry about it. Thus my advice might not be correct..

    It's not good news, the X-fi Live is not really an X-fi. It's just an earlier product renamed and it's had an X-fi sticker popped onto the box. I don't believe it supports CMSS 3D.

    On my card I get to the CMSS 3D through the Creative Console Launcher, I don't believe the Live uses this application.

    edit : It appears some versions of Live do support some form of CMSS 3D. What is your exact model?

    from the Creative forum........

    SB Live Series

    SB Live 24 Bit
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2013
  4. davidsh

    davidsh New Member

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    My card is the creative ct4760, and is quite old after all... But using cmss-3d would be pretty nice!

    Thank you for bothering to help me... I can find pics as well if you need. For now I have tried with the surrounder and connecting it to the virtual 5.1 in the dsp.. but it doesn't really work.
     
  5. Jac

    Jac Well-Known Member

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    Because it's an older card I am having difficulty finding some detailed specifications for it. I cannot find a mention of it having CMSS-3D. I have seen it mention 3D positional audio with EAX but I think this refers to using surround speakers.

    It may have some kind of virtual surround. So yes, post some pics and if possible some screenshots of the control panels for the device so I can see any relevant options.
     
  6. davidsh

    davidsh New Member

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    I connect the surrounder+ to virtual 5.1

    This is the card:
     

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  7. Jac

    Jac Well-Known Member

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    My guess would be that Virtual 5.1 is a technology that takes a 2 channel signal and upmixes to 5.1 for use with a set of 5.1 speakers. On that list 3D Sound Gen looks like the most likely HTRF (headphone related transfer function) technology. The HPhSp+ tech looks like simple spatialiser tech for headphones.

    Is there anything under the LiveWare tab that looks promising?

    Plus there is the fact that CMSS-3D is an effect that doesn't work that well for some people. It's based on a specific head and if that head is too different to yours the effect might not be so pronounced. There is a good way to test this though. Use your headphones. Turn off any processing like spatializers or 'stereo wide' or anything else that adds an effect to the sound then listen to the sound on this video....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzgQhgVRtjE

    In my opinion CMSS 3D is very good for 3D HTRF processing. Even the new SoundBlaster cards use the same technology under a different name AFAIK. It does make a real difference for gaming as well. Unfortunately you're going to need a real X-fi card to get it.
     
  8. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member

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    What version of kX are you using and what version of Windows?

    As Jac said, CMSS 3D is an X-FI thing. Your card is a SB Live! (which is not even a 5.1 model (it is 4 channel), but that does not makes much difference for headphone use). The 10k1 models (e.g. Live!) have a limited amount of hardware resources which makes something like CMSS 3D difficult to implement.

    There is a HpSph (Headphone Spatializer) plugin, but it is mainly for 10k2 (e.g. Audigy) models, again because it uses a lot of hardware resources.

    There is the Virtual 5.1 plugin. I have never tried it, so I am not sure how well it works (and I do not know if it just does a simple downmix or what).

    If you set Surrounder+ to the "2.0 Surround Mix" preset you get a basic 5.1 to 2.0 down-mix.

    That is pretty much it. HRTF really requires too many resources (even for 10k2 models).

    For gaming with headphones (with these cards) I always just used basic stereo, for me, any headphone spatialization type stuff just made the sound positioning worse.

    For 5.1 movies with headphones, I just use an application that has Dolby Headphone (or similar).
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2013
  9. davidsh

    davidsh New Member

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    Oh well. I really appreciate the clear answers of yours. As said, I tried virtual 5.1, but it just made the sound distant and weird = bad. I connected the surrounder+ outputs to the virtual 5.1.
    EAX reverb effects (CLEAX4, etc) are found under liveware, which might be better than nothing.

    Personally, I prefer cmss-3d over the other technologies from the sound samples I have heard around... Does not sound boxed in like DH, but very open instead with good positioning.

    Ohh well, this is where you end up if you try to save money :sigh: I might end up buying a proper sound card, just don't really like the current technologies out there.. Maybe when the new SB recon3d external sound card is out I'll give it a spin if it has digital output that is.. It is pretty darn hard to get all you want in a sound card.

    At least I can get digital sound out to my DAC, which is good (I am a headphone nut, have a nice dedicated system, lol)

    I'll try some more messing around. The drivers are a bit unstable when messing with the DSP's, though..

    Thnx!
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2013
  10. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member

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    EAX4 is for 10k2 cards and as such uses a lot of resources. With that card I would suggest CLEAX2Reverb.
     
  11. davidsh

    davidsh New Member

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    Ohh well, I can try both.
     
  12. Jac

    Jac Well-Known Member

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    The sound card market has really stagnated since M$ removed the direct sound stack with Windows Vista. Since then the audio card manufacturers have not really added anything significant to their products.

    Take Creative, their new Z series cards really don't offer anything over their older X-fi range. In fact in some regards they are a step backwards. That's why I bought an old Titanium Fatailty from eBay a few months ago. I bought that mainly for the shroud and LED logo because it isn't really any more capable than the xtremeMusic I had before.

    I sold my xtremeMusic on eBay when I replaced it and it sold for £11. So you can get a very capable card, second hand from eBay for not much money.
     
  13. elhoir

    elhoir New Member

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    Then why CMSS-3D feature is listed in my old Audigy 2 Value sound card???
     

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