I wish my parents were like this

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Forum' started by -={420}=-, Nov 15, 2002.

  1. reno

    reno Painlord of Ichor

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    sfg

    Fun facts about POT!

    Average US Prison Sentance served for murder charge: 6.3 years

    Average US Prison Sentance served for pot charge: 10 years

    Change in number of Americans jailed for non-violent drug offenses since 1980: +800%

    Pot users busted every year: More than 700,000

    Amount of tax money the Office of National Drug Control Policy spent on fighting marijuana: 18.1 billion

    Amount of tax money the Office of National Drug Control Policy spent on fighting cocaine: 1.3 billion

    Number of Americans who have tried pot within the last 10 years: 70 million (out of 290+ million citizens)

    Rank of marijuana, among all US cash crops: 1

    Estimate annual sales of pot in the US: 32 billion dollars

    Sales tax revenue that could be generated by marijuana if it were taxed at 6%: 1.9 billion dollars

    Amount of decrease in health care benefits in 2001: 1.6 billion dollars

    A recent poll in USA Today stated that 1 in 3 Americans believed legalizing marijuana was a good idea.

    Percentage of Teens in Holland (where pot is LEGAL) who have tried pot: 28 percent

    Percentage of Teens in America (where pot is ILLEGAL) who have tried pot: 41 percent

    Nixon (as president) appointed a committee whose task was evaluating the "threat" of pot on the "everyman." The committee embarassed Nixon by recommending decriminalization of marijuana because "it's use, in and of itself, is neither causitive of nor directly associated with crime." Nixon ignored this report and disbanded the committee.

    In 1999 under Clinton, General Barry McCaffery (an anti-drug proponent) found "that very few regular users developed a dependance on marijuana, and, in fact, they appear less likely to do so than users of other drugs."

    Holland's per capita root consumption (the amount of pot consumed per citizen) is much lower than America's. Even though pot is sold in every coffee shop, and in some fast food restaurants.

    Approximate increase in annual budget for US drug control since 1980: 35 billion dollars

    George Washington grew cannabis, Shakespeare smoked it in pipes, King James the First (who commissioned the most popular version of the holy Bible) orderd hemp to be grown in his settlement at Jamestown, the ancient Egyptian Pharoahs and Priests dabbled in Opium and Cocaine use, and Doctor Sigmund Freud (psychoanalyst, retainer to the title "creator of Oedipus Complex (where a boy kills his father and lusts after his mother)") considered his cocaine use "medicinal" and perscribed marijuana and cocaine to patients as "local anesthetic."



    So yeah. Just some interesting facts gained from around the web.
     
  2. reno

    reno Painlord of Ichor

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    sdfg

    Oh, and Kentucky accounts for 4.2 billion dollars worth of pot sales from the own homegrown weed.
     
  3. Joneser

    Joneser New Member

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    Here's a story from an ex pot head (among other things)...

    I used to smoke pot, and lots of it. I used to do cocaine, acid, opium,hash,special k, ecstasy, and occassionaly bump some heroin. Then one day my fiance left me, took my kid, narced me out and f#cked my whole world up. I knew that if I ever wanted to see my kid again I had to stop, and I did. It was hard, very hard. Then the depression set in.....three months w/o seeing my son. So I locked myself in the house and tried to drink myself dead. It was bad. Then one day I got a call from my present employer. Somehow got a job, got my shit together and got visitation rights w/ my son. I could not be more greatfull to my ex for turning on the lights.

    When it comes to pot, I don't really think that it is that bad. I mean you don't hear of Billy-Bob getting stoned, coming home and beating his wife and kids. I would much rather be riding in the car w/ someone who is stoned than w/ a drunk. Actually I could have used a joint trying to come off of all the crap that had my head twisted.

    I have to take random piss tests @ my job and that would be fine with me if they had a piss test to tell if you were stoned at the time. Why would going home on Friday, after busting your @ss all week, and smoking a fatty to mellow out effect me when I go in to work monday morning. But sure enough I'd loose my job, now that I don't agree w/. I wouldn't want to be hooking up 480V Ac to a unit w/ someone who is stoned, hell no, but if he goes home and gets lit, who cares.

    So drugs tests at work can be a good thing, as long as they were accurate! Maybe they should invent a test to analyze you brain waves or something ( or just play THE WALL, and see who zones out)
     
  4. fornicatarachnid

    fornicatarachnid Clanless

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    First of all Joneser, congratulations on getting your life back together, that must have been so hard but it sounds like you have finally cracked it. :)

    However, there is one thing I don't get in what you just said. First you said....


    ...and then in the next paragraph you said ....

    ...so whats the difference ? Years ago I drove home stoned from a pool hall I used to go to and it was only later that I realised I couldn't actually remember how I did it. I must have been on auto-pilot or something. That scared me to death and I never did it again.

    In my opinion drug-driving is just as dangerous as drink-driving :uhoh: so please, if you have to smoke the stuff, keep off the roads :(

    Drug Driving
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2002
  5. Dane Sabbath

    Dane Sabbath ***** Viking

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    lol

    "Drug policy makes up a relatively small portion of our government's spending -- about $19 billion in 2002."

    Maybe it's a small percentage dude, but every US taxpayer put in over $150 a year to make that up.

    That is more money than some countries' GDP.

    It is also only about equivalent to the amount of marijuana produced by Canada alone...

    Keep on trying dude, but the truth is you or anyone has no right to tell me or anyone else what we may do with our bodies' and plants produced by billions of years of organic evolution. Most people know that, thus most people disregard governments' marijuana drug policies.

    Do the math.
     
  6. JavaFox

    JavaFox E Pluribus Unum

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    I'm extremely tired of this thread at this point. It has become fraught with rhetoric (and I'll admit that I'm guilty of this as well), and I don't honestly believe that much good is coming of it. However, for the purposes of keeping a valid viewpoint alive, I will continue to participate in this thread so long as people post in it. I've thought about a lot of the things you pro-pot supporters have said --and there is some validity to it all-- and I hope I can be afforded the same courtesy.

    Dane, in 2002, the US Government spent about $2 trillion ($2,000,000,000,000). Therefore, the total amount of money spent on drug policy is less than 1% of federal spending. And if you read my entire statement, I said that the majority of that $19 billion goes to education and treatment -- enforcing drug policy (i.e., the DEA) only gets $1.6 billion. This is .08% of federal spending. For purposes of comparison, note that Social Security is 23% of your spending. Dane, if you're against educating the nation's youth on the dangers of drug abuse, then you have every right to complain about that less than 1% of the federal budget -- but something tells me that you, like most people, care about youth. Maybe I'm wrong.

    Dane, you know, I realize that you think that marijuana use doesn't effect anyone but yourself, but you are wrong. I've said numerous times that child use skyrockets when marijuana is legalized, and it's apparent that most people in this thread don't care about that.

    So how about this? How about studies from the US National Institute of Justice showing that 42.7% of the arestees it tested (a little under 60,000) positive for marijuana -- compared to 5% for opiates, 3% for methamphetamines, and a miniscule 1% for PCP? The fact is this: drugs lead to increases in crime. Drugs --marijuana to PCP to cocaine-- cause humans to do things they would not ordinarily do. It removes inhibitions. And data clearly shows that crimes will occur not because somebody WANTS drugs, but because they're ON drugs. It's just that simple.

    Also, I'd like to repeat a point I made earlier pertaining to drug rehab centers. I said that in 1999, more than 200,000 Americans entered drug rehabilitation centers to combat their addiction to marijuana. This is a striking statistic, placing marijuana second only to heroin. Now, for fairness' sake, more people enter rehab for alcohol problems than marijuana, but the percentage for alcohol abusers has been DECREASING while the percentage for marijuana users has been INCREASING.

    So there, two conclusive ways that marijuana legalization effects more than just you: increase in crime and addiction of children. But, then again, maybe some people don't care about these things.
     
  7. reno

    reno Painlord of Ichor

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    sfg

    Gee, I hate to think of how overrun Holland is with pot smoking criminals and stoned 8 year olds! It must be chaos!


    Javafox, all your "facts" were collected by agencies looking to make a point...and are more than likely completely wrong.


    Whatever, there is no changing the views of a flaming republican, just because you like living in your predetermined, secure, and utterly pointless life doesn't mean that everyone else shouldn't be allowed to do whatever they want with their life.
     
  8. JavaFox

    JavaFox E Pluribus Unum

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    Re: sfg

    Dimissing facts simply because they come from a source you may not like is understandable, but not entirely intelligent. Being cynical is one thing -- but you try too hard, my friend. What are you, Goth? ;)

    One thing I have to point out, reno --and surely a patriotic American such as yourself is aware of this-- is the fact that the USA is not Europe. You will note that we have yet to start a World War, are not primarily socialist, and use coins that are, for the most part, hypoallergenic. No, ours is a country vastly different from that of our European bretheren, and it is therefore a fallacy to assume that every single policy that worked for them will work for us.

    Now, that said, it is possible to draw some parallels between Europe and us. If you've studied the drug policies of the Netherlands, reno, you'd see something quite strange about it. Namely, that marijuana sale is not quite legal. They have de facto legality -- coffee shops and other stores are licensed to sell up to 5 grams of it to a customer, but it isn't legal for anyone else to sell it. Isn't that kind of strange? Doesn't that pose an interesting question...? Like, where are the coffee shops getting their dope from? Illegal means! The New York Times (among the most politically liberal newspapers you could get in this country) reports that even in small towns such as Venlo (pop. 90,400), there are 65 known illegal places to buy pot, as well as plenty of dope dealers on the streets because five grams just isn't enough for everyone! So basically, you have illegal dopehouses, people who are addicted to the point where five grams isn't enough, and an illegal drug distribution underground and yet people try to claim that the liberal drug policies of the Netherlands don't lead to more crime? Only a supreme partisan could fail to see how the policies of the Netherland help to create an illegal drug culture.

    It's also a blatant lie that "legalized" marijuana use will lead to careful experimentation and not widescale addiction and abuse. Studies by the British Journal of Pyschiatry show that marijuana use amongst 18-25 year olds in Holland have more than doubled between '84 and '96. And that is not without it's dire social implications. The head of the country's best known drug rehabilitation center has been quoted as saying that marijuana use creates "a chronically passive individual—someone who is lazy, who doesn’t want to take initiatives, doesn’t want to be active—the kid who’d prefer to lie in bed with a joint in the morning rather than getting up and doing something."

    Finally, if you think that legalizing "soft drugs" like marijuana doesn't lead to increased use and acceptance of even more dangerous substances, then you are probably unaware of the facts. First, heroin addiction levels in Holland have increased between 300% and 400%. Second, the Netherlands have known problems with Ecstasy. This drug is not legal in that country, yet it produces the majority of the world's supply. The Ecstasy problem is so bad in Holland that the government started a "Five Year Offensive against the Production, Trade, and Consumption of Synthetic Drugs."

    If the loose drug policies of Holland hurt nobody, then why did that country have to form the "Penal Care Facility for Addicts" --painfully reminiscent of the US's Drug Treatment Courts-- to treat and detain addicts that repeatedly commit crimes? If there wasn't that problem, they wouldn't have formed those courts.

    If the drug policies of Europe hurt nobody, then why did the EU, in its 2001 Annual Report on the State of the Drugs Problem in the European Union, find that there was a Europe-wide increase in cocaine use? Why did the British Home Office find that violent crime and property crime increased in every wealthy nation in the late 90s except the US, with its "spartan" drug laws?

    Sometimes, facts dictate policy -- and not the other way around as you suggest.

    Reno, you do yourself and your position a great disservice when you make ad hominem attacks on me like that. I'm going to have to respectfully ask that you keep your belligerence and nonsensical fallacies of argument where they belong.
     
  9. kinetic

    kinetic Well-Known Member

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    Re: Re: sfg

    What position might that be?:hmm:
     
  10. Ryoko

    Ryoko American Soldier

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    Re: Re: sfg

    it couldn't be because we still have guns, could it?
     
  11. kinetic

    kinetic Well-Known Member

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    Re: Re: Re: sfg

    No it's probably because you peaked too early!:dead: ;)
     
  12. JavaFox

    JavaFox E Pluribus Unum

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    Re: Re: Re: sfg

    Well, yeah, it could be, but the 90s weren't really defined by its lax gun laws. Furthermore, some European nations do have citizens that love their guns as much as we do -- examples would be the Finns and the Swiss.
     
  13. Louie6666

    Louie6666 Just One Sick-Lizard

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    Funny that in UK Motoring Program called Top Gear actually did testing on drivers under influence of dope! And they findings were that pot smokers actually concentrated more on there driving & were less easily distracted, than the none smokers..weird hey!

    Tell you one thing I'd rather run in to a bunch of stoners, than a bunch of drunks or Crackheads...you should see the crackheads round where I live...they would rip there grandmother off for a rock (some probably have)

    The place I live in is an equivalent of one of what you would call a ghetto area in USA! I have dealers outside of my house 24/7, which the police seem to ignore unless they have to make up on crime figures..I have to endure being stereotyped because I'm white & I'm here I must be after drugs...much like the black people here are stereotyped as dealers! Each year we have riot police out on Nov 5...quite spectacular watching police getting attacked with industrial fireworks!

    This would not be a problem IF ALL DRUGS WERE DECRIMILISED..as the drug addicts would not meet dealers who offer harder drugs. People might actually be able to kick there drug habits with control of the drugs as well as support, they might also be able to find a job if they didn't have a criminal record which labels them as criminals, rather than people who need help! Hell the heroin users might actually stop passing each other HIV if everthing was more open & they went to needle exchanges on offer!
     
  14. Louie6666

    Louie6666 Just One Sick-Lizard

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    Re: Re: Re: Re: bfg

    There isn't any evidence of the negative effects of marijuana use that show it being anymore dangerous for you than smoking cigarettes. I've still to see any evidence to the contrary.


    There is I heard a report from Morroco of blokey dying from cannabis!


    He was loading up some dope & the stack fell on him, crushed to death instantly!
    Now if that isn't a reason to ban it worldwide & send out death squads to track down all users I don't know what is :)



    lol
     
  15. reno

    reno Painlord of Ichor

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    reew

    Hmm, just because I don't purposefully mask my contempt for your ultra-conservative, degrading opinions as you do mine doesn't mean I'm the only one doing a disservice to something...

    Being a patriot, I can not see how restricting the use of marijuana will in any way help us absolve the nation's crime problem. You're right, we aren't Europe, we're conceited, fat, spoiled, and scared of progression. The Republican party, and conservative "Democrats" have promoted the stagnation of our country...they decrease taxes for the rich to make the rich even richer, and cut out programs for the poor because of the lack of tax funds... they provide tax breaks and legal breaks to their "lobbyists" who represent no one but a few rich business owners...and they restrict our freedoms (homeland security act, patriot act) so that they can increase their control over us...through fear.

    It is because of this, that hearing your degrading comments toward normal Americans and Europeans enrages me to the point of not caring anymore who's feelings I hurt. I'm just GLAD that one good apple out of this entire forum has been raised, and that's YOU. I'll just go back to being a tree hugging, mislead, and naive liberal, back to my role as a non-important pothead....where I can fufill my American dream of fattening your pocketbooks and giving up my personal freedoms so that the few deviants in our country won't kill anyone!

    I love Amerika. And I'm done with this thread.
     
  16. JavaFox

    JavaFox E Pluribus Unum

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    This the most touchy-feely fallacious comment in this thread! I have said it before, and I will say it again -- people commit crimes because they're on drugs, not because they want drugs. Six times as many murders are committed by people under the influence of drugs as by those who want to buy drugs.

    For your argument about dealers to be true, Louie, we would have to not decrimalize but absolutely deregulate drugs. Any law that put any kind of restriction on drug use would have to be repealed. For example, if we legalized marijuana for people over 18, there would be illegal drug distribution infrastructure (e.g., cartels, dealers, etc.) to distribute drugs among the young. If we levied taxes against drugs, there would be a black market to sell untaxed drugs. If we restricted the amount of drugs people could possess (e.g., five grams in Holland), then there would be dealers to sell to people that want MORE than that amount. In other words, so long as any restriction on drug use existed, there would be an illegal network of distributors. And you honestly want ZERO limitations on drug use? That would lead to an unacceptably high number of addicted Americans.

    And you're for that?
     
  17. Louie6666

    Louie6666 Just One Sick-Lizard

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    Prohibiton Doesn't Work!

    For your argument about dealers to be true, Louie, we would have to not decrimalize but absolutely deregulate drugs. Any law that put any kind of restriction on drug use would have to be repealed. For example, if we legalized marijuana for people over 18, there would be illegal drug distribution infrastructure (e.g., cartels, dealers, etc.) to distribute drugs among the young. If we levied taxes against drugs, there would be a black market to sell untaxed drugs. If we restricted the amount of drugs people could possess (e.g., five grams in Holland), then there would be dealers to sell to people that want MORE than that amount. In other words, so long as any restriction on drug use existed, there would be an illegal network of distributors. And you honestly want ZERO limitations on drug use? That would lead to an unacceptably high number of addicted Americans.

    And you're for that? [/B][/QUOTE]

    I would like to see the distrubution of drugs taken off the streets, out of the dealers hands & regulated...If the young people aren't in contact with the dealers in the first place & its no longer the forbidden fruit...they are not going to be to intrested..

    I don't think holland is a good example!(no drugs are legal just tolerated) Have you visited morroco! do you see or hear of drug addicts carrying on like they do in our countries.. no because its no big deal to them, there youth aren't really intrested!

    In the USA you may have problems with people commiting crimes whilst under the influence but in Uk its Heroin & crack addicts(& alcholics) that are robbing to feed there habits! cocaine curently retails in UK @£50 a gram, 1 rock of crack cocaine good for a 15-30min hit £10,(not sure about heroin) these people are physically dependant on crack & heroin, they need help, not inprisonment & a criminal record

    Having experimented & been a heavy user of various drugs (and now paying price for it healthwise) I can put my hand on my heart & say if i had not come in to contact with dealers I wouldn't have bothered moving on from POT! (came into contact with Pot thru my parents, who didn't find out I was smoking untill I was nearly 20...They had always discouraged me from using drugs...I used to raid there stash lol)

    Now for my sins I'm helping a friend over her cocaine addiction, her habit at one point, was costing her £700 a week plus! How did she pay for it, by selling drugs to her friends...

    Its a vicous circle & prohibition dosen't work face it, it hasn't for the last 80 years and won't in the future...funny really the victorians loved there opuim tea & Coca Cola, as soon as things were prohibited, they grew into the problem you see around you today!

    Hey I could go on for ages about this! But I've got to get some sleep, I hope I've given you something to think about & I may add to this later :)

    Ok quick add on Java I notice that you comment on people convicted or arrested under the influence...do you know pot stays in your blood stream for over a month, where as just about all the other recreational drugs take less than a week to come out of your bloodstream...thats why your figures for pot abuse look massive compared to rest :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2002
  18. Louie6666

    Louie6666 Just One Sick-Lizard

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    Re: reew

    who you replying to ?
     
  19. -={420}=-

    -={420}=- New Member

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    About cigatettes:
    One thing that I know is that tobacco itself does not contain nicotine. Nicotine is actually a very powerful insecticide. They once did not spray it on tobacco and then they tried it and suddenly their sales went up. So, now they purposely spray it with nicotine so that more and more people are addicted.

    About driving and weed:
    I know from my own experience that I can drive--and drive well--when I am stoned. I drove 800 miles to Oklahoma going 120 M.P.H. the entire time (no B.S.) because that's as fast as my mom's Jetta GLS could go when I pressed the pedal all the way down. Now, remember, I had no license, just a permit and the ENTIRE time I was driving 120 M.P.H. and I don't know how I managed not to get pulled over. The whole time I was driving I smoked nothing but big fat thick huge blunts of dro. I gotta admit that I didn't read all ur posts ever since page six just kinda skimmed thru them cuz i really dont feel like arguing anymore. What's the point? I could see if the people I was trying to convince actually had the power to make marijuana legal, but theyre not so theres no point in arguing. Of course, thats kinda what this thread is for so i wont try to stop u and I do wanna still be a part of it.

    sorry for being so ignorant but u must understand i have a lot of things to do right now. So, when i have time i will go back and read all ur posts from page 6 to this page.


    I have never been more tired than I am right now. I hope that all u people see how really pointless it is to argue about legalizing marijuana because it's not up to u to decide anyways. For those that feel smoking is good--keep smoking! as for those who don't, why argue with a stoner, let them do their thing cuz no matter what u say it wont change their mind, trust me;)
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2004
  20. Vampyromaniac

    Vampyromaniac confutatis maledictis

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    Bahahahhaha !!!
    The gateway drug strikes again !!!! :D


    Lol :evil: :tears: :bleh:
     

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