KX help file change for A2 cards

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Maddogg6, Feb 3, 2006.

  1. Maddogg6

    Maddogg6 Tail Razer

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2005
    Messages:
    4,027
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thank you - But keep in mind, It is here *mostly* for getting corrections. And then when 100% right, would then be included with the KX help file. I'M NO EXPERT!

    To be sure, I'll have to load a sonar project - use winnMM, with many audio tracks and make note of the CPU difference. But up till now I havent 'heard' any differences.
    Now keep in mind, this project started out for Live cards, then A2's were added. Lives have 2 diffeent codecs for the front and rears - A2's are not this was. By default (with default DSP) WAVE 0/1 and Wave 4/5 is routed through Front (but is swapped with the SWAP FRONT REAR switch in KX mixer) the other are routed to potentiallay the 'other' codecs. So some of the info in the knowledge base is not appliciple to A2's
    Changing the DSP changes that also.

    If WAV 0/1 is the only one capable of AC3 decoding (now that I think about it, I think you are right) - I will change the diagram to relfect this - I will also test this/look into further. again - the reason I made this diagram was to do exacly this, collect info for an updated help file for A2's. These questions will lead to corrections to the diagram - so thank you.

    I dont see any differences personally with WHAT ASIO X/X uses less CPU, nor do I hear any quality differences.

    This IS DSP configuration dependant.
    Wave 2/3 is the MIDI synths - The Wave 4/5; 6/7; 8/9 - are names to represent how they connect to the outputs. FRONT, C/LFE/ & REARS. It took me a while to understand the reason for this also. Although the WAVE device names dont change - I beleive this stems from MANY changes to KX Driver over time. And originally for 10K1 cards like the Live/ APS.

    Wave HQ - being responsible for BYPASSING the dsp (which WILL convert to 16/48) - will allow 24/96 to be output. MP3's dont usualy come in this format, so while I may hear a slight difference - it could be more psychological ??

    What I do that I *think* sounds better - is to use a winamp SRC (resample up to 24/96) and use waveHQ - but avoide the DSP (add eq with out the DSP) - to me this sounds significantly better than using wave X/X. But its definitly less stable for winamp, and uses more CPU.

    The only real usefull setting I can tell is the 'TANK MEMORY SIZE' with is the ammount of 'XTRAM' seen in the DSP - by default its 256K - I set mine to 2M - for longer/more DELAYS. Not really all used, but I;'ve been trying my hand in making delay plugins with dane and didnt want to exceed the XTRAM usage - But Ive never even got close to using it all.
    But potentially adjusting other buffers could help with some problems in some PC configurations/card models.

    1- YOU CANT PASS 24/96 through the DSP and KEEP 24/96 - the DSP (hardware level) converts to 16/48 first.
    2 - 24/96 playback is sent parallel to the DSP AND P16V (Via the 24/96 Router) - to get (or better to say 'hear') 26/96 - uncheck the switch for 10k2>I2S (is using analog speakers) or the 10k2>SPDIF (if using digital speakers) - to prevent hearing the DSP processesing this and getting MIXED at the output. - This is how I understand it, and I could be wrong - as I dont have the means of anaysing the output - you will note that 24/96 content will be LOWER volumes - which would make sense condidering how it would convert to 16/48 - loosing dynamic range compared to th original 26/96.


    Looks like its tailored to suit your needs - THE BEST thing about KX is that ability.
    Personally I like using MIXY4x2 for converting stereo to mono - for the 1 reason of ability to use KX automation to adjust its 'PAN' (effectivly its a 8/2 mixer when used in mono, but is flexible enough for use with stereo as well)

    I have a few DSP configs - based on what Im doing - 1 for TV (using prologica to upmix stereo to 5 channels) - another for DVD playback (using P16V sending DD dceoded - directly OR through DSP to down mix to my 4 speaker set up - basically I have descent FRONT monitors for DAW, and crappy ones for the rear, using DSP I can get a really good sound from this set up) - another for DAW - which is quite complex (I start out with this) and ususally add connections - but I do alot with MIDI to start with - then add audio to it - I have a few configs that are SONG / Sonar Project dependant and save the DSP config with that project - but I start out with that.

    Wave HQ has NOTHING to do with ASIO - The 'master port' stuff (AFAIK) is for syncronizing multiple tracks/outputs (OR to assign the MASTER BUSS in a mixer, as opposed to a MONITOR for performers to hear while recording) - as for quality differences, mentioned in the KX docs/knowledgebase/help file - I beleive are more related to the output codecs I mentioned above.

    Dont get congused by how the DEFAULT dsp connected ASIO 0/1 with wave 0/1 - in your DSP this doesnt seem to be true.


    Also keep in mind - I have changed my KX router so that Synth 1 and 2 DO NOT share the same FXBUSS - as well as changing what FXBUSS MIDI CC16/17/18/19 outputs rout to.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2006
  2. Maddogg6

    Maddogg6 Tail Razer

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2005
    Messages:
    4,027
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I changed the drawing to reflect that WAV0/1 is used for AC3/Multichannel.
     
  3. Maddogg6

    Maddogg6 Tail Razer

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2005
    Messages:
    4,027
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I DO have other questions - like WHERE should the SRC be placed in this drawing?? Does the P16V ALWAYS get fed 24/96 - AFTER the SRC?

    Because wave 0/1 can play just about any format up to 24/192 - is the same SRC shared - or can WAVE 0/ and WAVE HQ SRC be used at the same time??

    Im hoping the ones in the know will add/suggest changes to be more technically correct - This IS ALL based on how I understand how its all works 'FUNCTIONALLY' - there are probably technical mistakes in it.
    But even questions about it, will force me in 'looking at it again' and thus catch these mistakes with out the more knowledgable ones input..
     
  4. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Messages:
    5,722
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    48
    @smiro
    There is no wave (2/3). I think you meant FxBus(2/3). Do not confuse the FxBus numbers with kX Wave devices and ASIO. Under the default settings the kX wave devices and ASIO devices are numbered one to one with the FxBus numbers, but they are not the same thing, and can be re-ordered using kX Router.

    @Maddogg6
    Not all Live models use 2 codecs to achieve 5.1 sound. My card for instance uses a single 6 channel codec.
     
  5. Smiro

    Smiro New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2003
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Maddog your reply has been more than helpfull m8, i really appreciate!
    It really left me with no other questions or doubts bout my setup and kx generally, thanks again !;)

    To continue this discussion i checked recentlly the kx and sonar guide and the writer also uses ASIO 4/5 , 6/7 , 8/9 which as i figured out from your replies and some more readin on the kx knowledgebase, gives the same result as using ASIOs 0/1, 2/3, 4/5, in quality and perfomance based.

    Allthought about the wave 0/1 i still have doubts upon when using it in custom DSPs it needs more SPU power.


    About the synth outs, i don't really use synth function in kx (never tried it to be honest), and my DSP is as simpliest as possible cause i use VST effects in cubase so i do the routing of sends and grouping in there, i kinda trust my waves FXs more than the kx plugins in matter of quality of sound.
    And of course in my audio host the sound is processed internally in 32 bits throught the effects.

    Oh, am i right about that? i mean i set the ASIO on 16/48 but my cubase projects are set in 32/48, so that means that internal processing of effects and VSTs happens in 32 bits right? :(

    And if that happens, what will i gain with 24/48 ASIO supported by kx drivers?

    WaveHQ i also won't be needing it since i rarelly record my guitar in the pc, all other stuff is virtually produced!
     
  6. Maddogg6

    Maddogg6 Tail Razer

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2005
    Messages:
    4,027
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    0
    No problem - it would helped me in the beginning too - probably some more too - I find 'writing' it all out helps enfocre my knowledge in general - and figured others could benifit from it as well. -But Im sure theres some errors in it somewhere..

    I do beleive Wav 0/1 WILL use more resources than the other Wave X/X - because of the multichannel stuff. But i dont hear any real difference - no see a big difference in performace.

    Too bad - thats like half the reason for me to use KX over CL. Notice the 6 effect sends in my DSP (reverb CC#91, Chorus CC#93, Delay B CC#16, Phasor CC#17, Flange CC#18, Slapback delay CC#19) - NOT possible with CL drivers - and for the KX Synths to use practically zero resources... its pretty powerful and VERY flexible. But I do have soft synths as well.

    Yes - you are STILL benifitting fron the INTERNAL FLOATING POINT MATH of 32 bit - even tho its all converted to 16/48.

    additional 'HEADROOM' or dynamic range. Frequency response would be about the same.

    I use wave HQ only to test 24/96 recording - but I do use it for most playback in winamp, WMP, Foobar2000 - its set as my windows default playback device - so its used as default when I dont have the option to change the device used.
     

Share This Page

visited