Looking for 2nd or more opinions... (Temperatures)

Discussion in 'Overclocking, Benching & Modding' started by Judas, Oct 30, 2011.

  1. Judas

    Judas Obvious Closet Brony Pony

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    Look mostly at the temperatures.. i'd suggest taking a peaks at the MAX for the CPU..

    For clarification sake, no overclocks, all STOCK aside from the DDR memory that i'm running is at 1600mhz with stock voltage. (Can't get anything higher stable on this motherboard unfortunately, XMP is totally unreliable too as i tried it as well as manually setting a 1.64v for DDR3 and 2000mhz, and 1833mhz.. and just about anything above 1600mhz is unstable/crashes)

    Also This is just the results after booting into windows... running a Windows Index Test, and then taking a screenshot.

    Running a game or anything more long term intensive results in cpu temps hitting about 90-95*C steady..

    I'm just really wondering as i've never really taken a hard look at the CPU temp aside from noticing in the bios that it was frequently floating around the 55-65*C range right from the word go, and i've tried a few things with the stock cooler with no change at all.. (yes it's sitting 100% properly).....

    I'm just wondering if this does seem indeed correct for a very VERY well ventilated cooled system using just the stock heatsink for the cpu.

    (Admittedly the 128*C temp for the Vert EX3 is mind blowingly wrong, but seems to be a common problem.. go figure)

    [​IMG]
     
  2. blibbax

    blibbax nahm8

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    95 degrees for a CPU is very high even with stock cooler. I don't normally expect to see stock coolers break 75 with stock clocks.

    Thermal paste/contact/PWM settings checked?
     
  3. Sihastru

    Sihastru Never been clicked

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    The problem is the CPU VCore, 1.34V is what you'd need for medium-high overclocks in the 4.2-4.4 range with an D0 i7 930. I only need 1.24 for 4.0 GHz on mine. So set that at ~1.25V. Also I think you have EIST/Cx states disabled, which can account for a constant high voltage on all situations. Enable those.

    I think you motherboard is not that smart when it comes to XMP. Disable XMP and set you RAM settings manually. The higher the memory speed is, the higher the voltages for the Uncore part of you CPU need to be.

    You will NEVER be able to run 6 x 4GB at 1866-2000MHz with a NON EXTREME chip. And even if you had a 990X you'll still find it difficult sometimes depending on your motherboard. You need to settle for 1600MHz, ~1.6V, 9.9.9.25 (or 27), 2T (NO WAY 1T), everything else on AUTO.
     
  4. Takaharu

    Takaharu Unus offa, unus iuguolo

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    The 1366 doesn't seem to keep cool at all using stock cooling. Around 50°C at idle is believable as my case is supposed to be one of the best ventilated and I get around 40°C at idle with an after-market cooler. This isn't just with a 965 either, I had similar temps with a 930.
    60°C, however, is high if you're running at idle. There's definitely a problem there in my opinion. Perhaps there's a bubble in the thermal paste?

    If the above suggestions fail maybe you could try an after-market cooler just for sanity's sake. I'm still using my trusty Hyper 212, despite having not overclocked a processor (properly) since my Q9550.
     
  5. Judas

    Judas Obvious Closet Brony Pony

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    yeah... i know it's high.. way way way higher then i tend to like for any cpu... but like i said... i've done all the thermal paste checks and reseating possible... i can't get anything better with the stock heatsink...

    further google checks seem to point to this as being well within normal parameters... the cpus are designed for it... 100C has auto throttling back too..

    i'm wondering if perhaps the monitor isn't reading right.. but using others doesn't appear to change anything.
     
  6. Judas

    Judas Obvious Closet Brony Pony

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    actually i think you've nailed it.. for whatever reason the motherboard is way overvolting it..... it's always ran 1.35v with auto..... then again i think i've always had some weird issues with this motherboard....

    Kinda rediculious if DEFAULT CMOS results in the voltage being cranked up to such a high value. Guess i've always just assumed that the auto settings at stock clocks and and such would have resulted in nothing being cranked up for no real reason.

    yeah i don't think i've EVER had a single system that XMP worked... never.... i'm starting to think that XMP mode is a 1 in 100 chance or better... kinda pisses me off that they have this option and it never results in a stable machine. What's the point?

    I can run in windows for about 15 minutes with XMP with 6x4gb @ 2000mhz 1T command rate before it crashes... i think it's likely heat related though.... then again xmp does overclock other components. I just don't think the i7 930's memory controller can sustain it.

    the memory is 100% stable at 1600mhz with tighter timings including 1T command rate.
     
  7. Judas

    Judas Obvious Closet Brony Pony

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    well after figuring out that auto/default voltage on the motherboard is making the cpu run at 1.35 volts... it explains a lot WHY it's running considerably warm... i try to never crank up the voltage...

    nothing wrong with the thermal paste or the stock heatsink aside from just being terrible i think... I've been eyeing up a replacement heatsink for ages.. i just never really needed it.

    As the 2011 socket is around the corner.. i felt the wish to kinda play with the system... so i was playing with the memory when and was thinking about overclocking... which of course resulted in finding out specific details about the system before starting anything fancy.. this is when i noticed my minimum and high cpu temperatures.

    I've been running the system with 1600mhz ram and everything at auto for well over a year since i got he machine..... guess maybe a year and a half
    i'm a little irritated that this entire time i may have been running it over volted.... this entire time.. unnecessarily due to a glitch or a massive failure in the motherboards "default/Failsafe/Auto" settings.

    also keep in mind this is in a raven 02 silverstone case which draw fresh cool air from the bottom using 3x 180mm fans (very large and high volume fans that essentially cover the entire bottom of the case)... and then a single 120mm fan that pull air out of the case right near the cpu..... ambient temperature in the case is probably a steady 19-21*C.... the air coming out of the case is extremely cool. Using an infered temperature monitor.. the cpu heatsink on the outer edges appear to be around the 45-50*C range idle... meanwhile the rest of the board components are very cool... and even looking at the radeon 5770's temperature which onlyshows the primary video card which is also being sevearly hampered by the other video card (reducing air flow considerably) is running very cool as well after a index rating run that typically results in other machine running quite a bit warmer.
     
  8. steves6403

    steves6403 Active Member

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    Hey judas what is your enviroment temp.I live in australia and find that temps go up alot in spring and summer.Even with the aircon running temps are still up there..Nice case by theway.They have certainly checked all the boxers with that beast. I would definetly go the box cooler.You,ll see a huge difference from that round thing
     
  9. Judas

    Judas Obvious Closet Brony Pony

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    Ambient temperatures in the area in which my compute resides go from about 15*C to about 30*C (with air conditioning on depending)..

    I went in and set the CPU voltage manually to 1.2v (this seems to be the common voltage that most seem to agree as the "standard")

    go into windows.. now my idle temps are between 40-45*C.... load temps don't seem to be breaking the 60*C mark... for each core.... while overall cpu temp is now down to the 28-30*C range... WAY WAY better

    that's pretty damn significant...

    Now that i've that under control, i think i'll push my Bus speed to 200mhz and drop the multiplier down to the stock 2.8ghz while maintaiing a 1.2v and a 1600mhz ram speed.

    I'll keep toying around... still erks me that the voltage has been so high for so long.

    Still wish my OCZ Vertex 3 drive wouldn't BSOD as often as it does...
     
  10. Judas

    Judas Obvious Closet Brony Pony

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    A few quick little tweeks...

    and got this running just fine... still really haven't done anything...

    But i can post @ 1.0-1.1v stable @ 2.8ghz with the current settings... but it was a little 50/50 on remaining in windows stable. Course i haven't touched any other voltage.. they remain "stock" Auto in bios. .which may mean they are still being marginally overvolted.. i can't tell..

    Although even with the same CPU speed, a jump in about 5*C just by increasing the bus speed from 133 to 200 is interesting.

    I think my goal is a reasonable one..

    A uniform half Synced set of speeds, as in 1600mhz ram, 3200mhz cpu clock, using divisable numbers.... trying to eliminate the remainders.

    BTW, after setting the cpu voltage manually to 1.2v and then setting the 200mhz bus speed, and then manually setting the ram value, including the command rate to 2N (2T) rather then one which XMP set for whatever reason, i was able to hit 2000mhz Stable on the ram... but there is a significant difference in performance compared to a slower frequency with tighter timings including the 1N/1T command rate at 1600-1700mhz.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Sihastru

    Sihastru Never been clicked

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    1.35V is just fine, it's within the range specified on the CPU's box, 0.8V - 1.375V, so it's not really a problem, the CPU life wasn't affected.

    OK, EDIT, my 4.0GHz settings:

    CPU clock ratio 20X (4.0GHz)
    QPI clock ratio x36 (7.2 GHz)
    Uncore clock ratio x16 (3.2GHz, this needs to be double the RAM frequency)
    BCLK frequency 200MHz
    XMP Disabled
    System memory multiplier 8.0 (1.6GHz)
    PCI Express frequency 100MHz
    CPU clock drive 800mV
    PCI Express clock drive 900mV
    CPU clock skew 0us
    IOH clock skew 0us

    Turbo Disabled
    HT Enabled
    C1E Enabled
    C3/C6/C7 Enabled
    TM Enabled
    EIST Enabled
    Bi-directional PROCHOT Enabled

    DRAM CAS 9
    DRAM tRCD 9
    DRAM tRP 9
    DRAM tRAS 27
    DRAM CMD 2

    LLC Standard
    CPU Vcore Normal
    Dynamic Vcore (DVID) +0.13750V (that's about ~1.24V in CPUZ on full load with LLC on Standard)
    QPI/Vtt 1.315V
    CPU PLL 1.84V
    PCIE 1.56V (more or less depending on how many PCIE devices are installed, like SLI/CF)
    QPI PLL 1.16V
    IOH Core 1.14V (more if unstable)
    ICH I/O 1.5V (no need to mess with the ICH)
    ICH Core 1.1V (again, no need)

    DRAM Voltage 1.6V (depends on your RAM, could be lower, or it could be up to 1.65V-1.66, don't go above!)
    DRAM Termination 0.8V (always half the DRAM Voltage)
    Ch-A...C Data VRef 0.8V (always half the DRAM Voltage)
    Ch-A...C Address VRef 0.8V (always half the DRAM Voltage)

    Isochronous support Enabled
    Virtualization Technology Enabled


    And that's about it.

    You say that CMD Rate 1T/2T and other settings on the RAM make a difference, that is both true and untrue. On a regular older Intel system (Q9550, P45), dual channel memory controller, it might account for small differences in synthetic benches and in a few real life situations. On AMD dual channel systems memory settings are important, there are big differences there. But on newer Intel systems (Sandy Bridge, iX) not so much. On a tri-channel system memory is actually the last thing you need to worry about. Quantity is much more important then declared speed (well up to a point, there's a thing called overkill). The only differences are on synthetic benches, and there it's just 0%-5% (on a good day), but mostly it's at about 3%.

    And this 3% is obtained by paying up to 100% more.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2011
  12. Judas

    Judas Obvious Closet Brony Pony

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    yeah all the throttling and settings for voltage control are at the defaults.. and it works provided i DON'T set the cpu voltage at all and leave it on auto.. however this results in it jumping to 1.35 and somtimes higher under load at stock frequency...

    Running 1.2v still, not sure what the QPI voltae is i'm getting about 6 different values from 6 different programs, and CPUID Monitor doesn't say necessarily, then again i don't know what Vin3 or Vin6 is... some people think it's south bridge or northbridge or something.. who knows.. even if it was that, they don't seem right.. then again setting stock "auto" values for everything doesn't show these things changing anyways

    I'm running 210FSB, 3775mhz QPI, 3775Mhz on the cpu with all the stock default settings enabled, obviously my ram is running at 1680mhz with 9-9-9-24-1T @ 1.5v

    The system will POST @ 4.0 and 4.2 and 4.4ghz with 1.2v.. however windows will fail to make it all the way to the desktop before i receive a IRQ less than or equals BSOD what i'm told is likely due to potentially not enough voltage on the cpu (obviously) and that the QPI may need a good jolt as well. Either way, i'm fairly content @ 3.8ghz

    However through cpu load even at 1.2v gets up to about 70-75*C @ 3.4ghz and about 80-85*C at 3.8ghz

    Idle (12x multiplier) gives me a 2.5ghz idle speed, and as you did notice, the voltage never changes from 1.192v (1.2 set in bios).

    I was told that using Offset rather then manual cpu voltage may give me back my idle voltage drop.

    Either way, Idling temps are steady at 50*C with a +/- of about 3-5*C

    Ambient temperature in the room is currently around the 22-24*C mark as of this posting.

    I run few a number of the AIDA64 benchmarks.. all of them actually.. and aside from a specific few.... i was either score at the top or placing 2nd/3rd in most of them, something i haven't seen often.

    Even my Ram Latency managed to hit a near 1st place (landed in 2nd place by a franction of a Nanosecond lol)

    47.9NS on the latency, top scorer being 47.5NS, beating out a Core i7 2600 that scores 53.8ns

    Think a REALLY good cpu cooler will make a giagantic difference VS this stock intel i7 930 heatsink
     
  13. Judas

    Judas Obvious Closet Brony Pony

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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2011
  14. Sihastru

    Sihastru Never been clicked

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    AUTO and 'default' are two very different things when you're overclocking. Voltages left on AUTO when BCLK is different then it's default value (133MHz) will most likely overshoot. Leaving things on AUTO is the wrong way to overclock a system.

    Just a friendly warning.

    Also if your interested in OC, an aftermarket cooler is a must. You shouldn't push your system too much with the stock cooler, certainly not with voltages on AUTO...
     
  15. Judas

    Judas Obvious Closet Brony Pony

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    I would agree with the auto vs default option unfortunately... Asus setup their motherboard with failsafe/default BEING "auto"

    there is no "normal" or "stock" options, you either stay on auto, OR you plug in whatever voltage you want, it doesn't tell you what the normal/stock voltage is.... it just start at the lowest voltage option.. and lets you increase it to any value you wish.

    This is why it's a little difficult to really know what your starting point is, because it doesn't give any idea where you are starting unless you already have a pinpoint value for the defaults via speclist or whatever to begin with, this is what i don't have.

    So if i was to send you a device in which you couldn't use a multimeter on to determine it's "auto" voltage and there was conflicting or various "accepted normal" voltages for whatever this device was, where would you start? I typically take the average of the accepted voltages.. and going by user input.... Vcore for the cpu @ 1.2 seemed like the typical accepted value...

    QPI is another matter entirely..... i've read 1.0/1.1 and 1.2 as being "normal"... well those 3 are very very different.

    Still wish i could understand why my idle voltage isn't dropping.. absalutely everything is enabled for it.

    Guess it just doesn't work if you manually set a vcore voltage.
     
  16. Judas

    Judas Obvious Closet Brony Pony

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    i just started playing with the Offset Voltage option to see if it made any difference in the idle states.

    Looking at what others have managed, they all state that this is the only thing that'll allow for a voltage drop in idle states.

    However after setting it, and determining that my stable 3.8ghz @ 1.10-1.15 seems to be enough (and reduces the heat a bit too), even running several minutes without a single program running the cpu Z and hardware monitor still reports no less or more than 1.15v (currently selected)

    All the speedstep settings are enabled.

    Asus's Offset Voltage is = to that of Gigabytes Dynamic Voltage you mentioned. So this SHOULD technically fix the idle voltage... but apparently not.

    I also tried to set the QPI to 1.25/1.3/1.35 but the system would not boot. I still can't get a clear reading on what it's running... and pushing it into the the 1.375 and 1.4 range isn't something i really want to do, but i suspect that the AUTO mode is pushing it up there anyways.

    Even if i leave the CPU Voltage at 0.95v Stable at 3ghz, the heat still seems quite high, my only guess is that the northbridge in the chip itself as well as the QPI and DRAM Voltage is "above" normal, even though i've set the DRAM voltage by itself to 1.5 and things are stable. So it's either the ram, QPI or the FSB i'm pushing or obviously ALL 3 that are keeping my temps up (but of course MUCH MUCH Better now that my cpu isn't always turning over at 1.35v)
     
  17. Sihastru

    Sihastru Never been clicked

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    Ah, OK, in case you need the actual default values, here they are:

    CPU clock drive 700mV
    PCI Express clock drive 700mV
    CPU clock skew 0us
    IOH clock skew 0us


    LLC Standard (on some motherboards it could be Default, Disabled, or whatever, "Standard" here means "according to Intel spec.")
    CPU Vcore 1.175V
    QPI/Vtt 1.175V
    CPU PLL 1.8V
    PCIE 1.5V
    QPI PLL 1.1V
    IOH Core 1.1V
    ICH I/O 1.5V
    ICH Core 1.1V

    DRAM Voltage 1.5V
    DRAM Termination 0.75V
    Ch-A...C Data VRef 0.75V
    Ch-A...C Address VRef 0.75V

    Some motherboards might have slightly different values, for example QPI VTT might be 1.2V instead of 1.175V. CPU Vcore can also vary from CPU to CPU since they do VID binning at the factory.

    EDIT:

    I also wanted to add, that simply booting into windows and running a few random benches will not determine if your system is or isn't stable. For that you should run Prime95, on the Blend setting (so it will also use some RAM) for at least 30 minutes after every key BIOS setting change. It will usually fail before the 15 min mark if there is a problem.

    After it can pass from 2 to 6 hrs then you can say that your system is fairly stable. If you have nothing better yo do, you could let it run for about 24 hrs and if it passes then you should carve those settings on a gold plate so you don't lose them.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2011
  18. Judas

    Judas Obvious Closet Brony Pony

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    Nice... good to have something for defaults

    So for LLC..... DISABLE should be what's set... i had it on auto and currently running "enabled" and still not seeing a voltage drop while idling even with everything else enabled.

    The other thing i see in the bios is the extreme phase power or something like that... but it only allows for an "auto" or "enabled" mode which would disable voltage regulation for idling.... so if all else fails, i may not have the option to drop the voltage while overclocking or by setting a manual voltage of some sort either via offset or not.

    As for the stability vs Tested stability... yeah i'm well aware of that..

    Mostly just twiddling around.... though last night i left it running a Prime95 Blended test @ 3.775ghz 210mhz FSB and the 1680mhz DDR3 with no errors/crashes after almost 9 hours. (though this was still at 1.2v, which now i'm running 1.15v)

    Definitely need a better heatsink... stock is doing quite well considering though... 86*C was the peak Temperature on a single core (the others registered 81/84/84) after a 9 hour burn in.

    I also just tried getting things to post/boot at slightly higher FSB speeds.. but when i get to about 216-220, the machine will post/load into windows and run a few things before failing... However during the boot/post/etc the display seemed to be delayed significantly, like it was having trouble loading files, displaying things... my boot time increased by a factor of 4 or 5 just with that change... so obviously to be safe, i'm not going to venture past 210.

    I'm also not sure if i should be tweeking the QPI.... XMP wanted it at 4000mhz (obviously to work with the 2000mhz DDR3 settings as apparently it must be double that or more)...

    Should i try and pushing the QPI higher? Or is the 3775mhz just fine and more than enough.

    Thanks for the suggestions so far..

    I haven't delved to much into the whole Intel overclocking scheme to much aside from slight bumps in speed of no more than say 15-35% just for a slight boost. Where as this i7 seems to have an abundance of leg room. (unlike the intel i7 920 i had previous which really didn't like to overclock much at all)
     
  19. Sihastru

    Sihastru Never been clicked

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    For QPI above 3.6GHz, I think you will need above 1.4V for the QPI/Vtt voltage. And that's not really compatible with your wish of having as low as possible voltages for the CPU. Remember the uncore part is in the CPU as well, the memory controller is there. All these voltages will increase your CPU's power consumption and temperature.

    And it's all for that extra 0% - 3% on some benchmarks. I would recommend that you give up this need to have 2GHz RAM, and settle for 1.6GHz. For 1.6 you'd only need 3.2GHz QPI, that will only need around 1.3V.

    I'm also curious, I think you have two kits of 3x4GB combined, and this XMP profile (for 3 sticks) isn't really applicable for a TRUE 6x4GB kit. If you do a little research you'll see that there aren't really any 2GHz 24GB kits around, because the platform can't really achieve that with a non extreme chip.
     
  20. Judas

    Judas Obvious Closet Brony Pony

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    Yeah i'm not attempting a 2ghz memory...

    although i can get it stable provided i losen up the timings and make sure the command rate is NOT at 1T/1N

    Yeah i don't think i'll play with the QPI or Really try to pushing anything higher than the current setup i've got... The only thing i'm looking at doing right now though is seeing if i can get the idle voltage to work, otherwise... still running 100% fine with the current settings...

    Made a pretty damn good jump in overall performance too...

    The Memory kits i'm running is actually dual channel kits... although all the same make/brand.

    Like i said.. i could get 2000mhz to work for awhile if i manually set everything myself... but i found that the performance was POORER with the loose timings and such to get it to work, than what i can get with it running @ 1600mhz (1680mhz) with much tighter timings including the 1T/1N command rate that i am using now.

    So i'm sticking to that.

    When/IF i get a new cpu heatsink, only then will i bother bumping up the multiplier, until then, nothing is going to change, and when i do get it.. i'm not going to play with anything else EXCEPT the multipier and the cpu voltage. I dropped my vcore down to 1.1 at the moment... still stable.

    Any idea bout the LLC?.. should i keep it enabled or on auto or disabled?
     

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