my setting. Is it enough as possible?

Discussion in 'Effects and the DSP' started by Heruka, Sep 23, 2011.

  1. Heruka

    Heruka A2ZS Gold User

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    [​IMG]

    I got 5.1 speakers. I want to have the best possible quality (for example 6 channel music files, 24/96 rips, etc.)
    Mainly i got flac files on my computer.
    What about surrounder? Is it correctly connected?
    Any suggestions to get more from my card?

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2011
  2. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Messages:
    5,722
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Without seeing the GUI windows for each plugin we can only guess as to how they are configured
    (and BTW: You should also include info about your OS and kX version, etc...).

    In any case:

    That config will not work for music files with more than 2 channels, as you are mixing everything down to 2 channels via MX6. However, it should work OK (again depending on how each plugin is configured, etc) for upmixing stereo to 5.1.

    As for the 24/96 stuff, that only works with WaveHQ, which bypasses the DSP.
     
  3. Heruka

    Heruka A2ZS Gold User

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Thanks for reply.

    I got win xp sp3, Sb Audigy 2 ZS Notebook, kx version is 5.10.00.3538 - debug, I am using foobar+kernel streaming (resampler set for 48kHz; otherwise not working - why?is it ok?), also ProFx plugins.

    New pic:

    [​IMG]

    What about this WaveHQ?How to use it/where connect it?

    Thanks.
     
  4. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Messages:
    5,722
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Thanks for the info. (The ProFx plugins have so many config possibilities, that is why it is necessary to show their config when posting a screenshot.)

    Which 3538 version (there were a lot of them)? With Windows XP, you might
    consider using kX version 3545b (many bugs fixed since 3538 versions) or maybe even a newer version (like 3550... newer versions might have some new bugs, but they also support your card better). Someone else with a A2ZSNB should be abe to tell which is the best version to use with that card.

    As for WaveHQ, I do not know if the A2ZSNB has it... It would be listed as one of the driver options in the Windows Control Panel if your card has it.

    You did not show the config for MX6, but the way it is connected, I am guessing that you are just mixing all the inputs together (e.g. you have multiple channels going into to it, but only 2 coming out (again this is not going to work for multichannel audio files (try the kX speaker test), etc)). (With kX 3538) You might consider disconnecting FxBus 4/5, 6/7, and 8/9 from MX6 and instead connect them to Surrounder+ (4/5 to fL/fR inputs, 6/7 to rL/rR inputs, and 8/9 to Center/LFE inputs (Note: Newer versions of kX will use different routing)).
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2011
  5. Heruka

    Heruka A2ZS Gold User

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Thanks for reply.

    Unfortunately I have no WaveHQ :(
    However, I have uploaded to 3550 version. And it works fine.
    Your suggestion to Dsp setting didn't work fine, but I made this one, what do You think about it? Any suggestions are welcome.

    [​IMG]

    SRC are from 0/1 to 8/9 from up to bottom. k2lt is properly connected to surrounder. I need a setting to get the best sound quality as possible...

    Thanks.
     
  6. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Messages:
    5,722
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Yeah, that config should work with 3550 with Win XP.

    As far as quality goes (with your DSP config), you are a bit limited as the DSP's sample rate is locked at 48000 (which is why you have to use resampler in Foobar), so the only thing that would affect quality is how much processing you are doing in the DSP (i.e. how much you are modifying the signal from it's original form). Beyond that it is all personal preference.

    BTW: You can do 24 bit/48000 using ASIO.
     
  7. Heruka

    Heruka A2ZS Gold User

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Thanks.

    Yes, as I mentioned before, I got Kernel Streaming plugin in foobar and also I've installed ASIO4all (but what is strange, when I tried various options of asio4all output, it didn't work properly; also I got errors from asio panel). Does this combination of KS output plugin in foobar + asio4all installed and in kx asio panel chosen option 10k2 24 bit/48 kHz (8+0) is OK?

    Thanks.
     
  8. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Messages:
    5,722
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    48
    No, you do not want ASIO4ALL... It has nothing to do with kX ASIO (i.e. kX ASIO control panel is for kX ASIO). You want an ASIO output plugin for Foobar, using kX ASIO.
     
  9. Heruka

    Heruka A2ZS Gold User

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Ok, I uninstalled asio4all, I got asio plugin for foobar, but I lost 5.1 in 6 channel audio files.
    And I don't have asio panel in kx. Tell me what to do...

    Thanks.

    EDIT: I got it! I guess all is working properly..! Thanks :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2011
  10. Heruka

    Heruka A2ZS Gold User

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    OK. Just one last question: my active fx bus'es are: 6/7 (in normal, stereo files only this one is active); 0/1 & 4/5 in 6 ch files all those three. How to connect them (as SRC) to surronder+ to achieve the best output?

    Thanks.
     
  11. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Messages:
    5,722
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Typical setup (kX version 3550 on WinXP) should use kX Wave 0/1 as the default audio device for Windows, which uses FxBus as follows:

    FxBus 0/1: Stereo (should be connected to inL/InR (top 2 pins) on Surrounder+).

    FxBus 2/3: Front channel of mutlichannel audio (should be connected to in_nw/in_ne on Surrounder+)

    FxBus 4/5: Rear channel of mutlichannel audio (should be connected to in_sw/in_se on Surrounder+)

    FxBus 6/7: Center and LFE channel of mutlichannel audio (should be connected to in_n/LFE on Surrounder+).

    When using ASIO, I suggest configuring (which outputs) it in a similair way as above, so that the same config works for both.

    For more info on Surrounder+, see here: http://www.hardwareheaven.com/3-d-audio/55041-surrounder-explained.html
     
  12. Heruka

    Heruka A2ZS Gold User

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Thanks. :)

    However: when I am configuring asio in foobar (channel mapping) kx out 00 I hear center+front left+rear left (so I am describing it as Left); kx out 01 I hear center+front right+rear right (describing it as Right); kx out 02 & 03 I hear fL/fR so I am choosing them as Surround Left/Surround Right. In this options I hear stereo or 6 ch files probably correct...but I don't know for sure
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2011
  13. Heruka

    Heruka A2ZS Gold User

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    So???
     
  14. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Messages:
    5,722
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Sorry I did not see your last edit.

    I am not completley sure what you are asking... The top 2 input pins of Surrounder+ are for plain stereo audio and has upmixing capability (e.g. stereo to 5.1, etc, depending on how Surrounder+ is configured). The rest of the input pins are for multichannel audio (for passthru to speakers or downmixing, etc).

    For 6 channel audio over ASIO, you would probably want to use kX outs 2/3 (fL, fR), 4/5 (sL/sR), and 6/7 (center/LFE)... (and possibly 8/9 for side channels).

    kX Outs (ASIO) map one to one to FxBus pins, if you send the front channels to kX outs 2/3, then that is what you will get from FxBus 2/3, etc (there is no remapping done by kX, so mapping will only depend on how Foobar is configured, and what you do in the DSP).
     
  15. Heruka

    Heruka A2ZS Gold User

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Thank You for the reply, anyway, I'll try to explain it again:

    [​IMG]

    as on this picture, firstly it is necessary to configure asio in foobar, so you have to map those kx outs (you playing test signal and hear from which speaker the signal is coming; for 00 I hear center+front left+rear left at the same time (so I am describing it as Left); kx out 01 I hear center+front right+rear right at the same time (describing it as Right). kx out 02/03 I hear fL/fR so I am choosing them as Surround Left/Surround Right (as there is no option to choose fL/fR; what else could I choose?). Other kx outs are easy to hear & to choose the right option.

    [​IMG]

    On this second picture You can see 5.1 audio file playing with this configuration as above; fxbus 4/5 are some kind of dead, and also I think it's noticeable when I am listening it...

    so maybe there is something to change?

    Thanks.
     
  16. peate

    peate Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    513
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I don't mean to butt in this thread, but I will anyways.:lol:

    I personally would use direct sound or kernel streaming set to kx0/1(or whichever you prefer) in Foobar and just connect the corresponding Fxbus output to surrounder's top 2 pins set to 5.1 with surround on, you will get 5.1 sound no problem. Asio is mostly used for multitrack recording where low latency is required. I don't think the sound quality is better than kernel streaming but then that's only my opinion, others may not agree.

    For watching movies or other sources with multiple channels, I use a direct path 3 srcs (4/5 6/7 and 8/9) -> 3 eqs or timbre -> 3 gains hq -> k1lt. I'm somewhat limited in dsp resources since I use a Live card, but it works like a charm for DVDs through media player classic or VLC. I like using different dsps custom made for whatever I'm doing. That's what I love the most about kX, it's completely customizable.

    But if your set-up works, don't change it. It's just I find you're complicating things with Asio and multiple outputs. Just my 2 cents.
     
  17. Heruka

    Heruka A2ZS Gold User

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Yeah, thanks for the reply.

    I was using KS some time ago, but then I thought to try asio.
    Now I just changed the output in foobar on ks 0/1, but the connections in DSP I left unchanged, as above. And now all the fxbus'es seem to work...I guess it's working now properly.

    :)
     
  18. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Messages:
    5,722
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I see what you are saying... That test signal stuff is kind of irrelevant for kX because signal mapping is one to one with FxBus pins (it is not speakers like with other ASIO drivers), and because routing in the DSP can be whatever you choose to use (where it is pretty much fixed in other drivers). The idea is that you know exactly where the signal will come into the DSP, and you can route it wherever you want...

    Surrounder+ is designed such that it can handle both stereo and multichannel audio and send it to the correct speakers (i.e. not all inputs are used for all audio). The top 2 pins are for stereo audio only. You have FxBus 0/1 connected to it, so you should not use ASIO Outs 00/01 for any channels of multichannel content.

    Here is the mapping I suggest (using the speaker naming scheme used by the ASIO output plugin):

    kX Out# -- Speaker
    ------------------
    00 -- <none>
    01 -- <none>
    02 -- Left
    03 -- Right
    04 -- Surround Left
    05 -- Surround Right
    06 -- Center
    07 -- LFE
    ------------------
    Optional (for 7.1 cards):
    ------------------
    08 -- Side Left (FxBus 8 --> in_w)
    09 -- Side Right (FxBus 9 --> in_e)

    Use a separate mapping (i.e. a separate ASIO virtual device) for stereo only content (if you want to upmix using Surrounder+):
    00 -- Left
    01 -- Right
    ... -- <none>

    WAVE and KS are fine for playback as well, ASIO was only suggested for 24 bit support.

    Note: This is the same mapping (FxBus assignments) used by the Wave driver (kX 3550 on WinXP) and as such should work the same for WAVE/KS/ASIO.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2011
  19. Heruka

    Heruka A2ZS Gold User

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Yeah, of course now it's working alright!

    But if I am using KS, there is no 24bit?

    I have problems with treble...I can't achieve right sound of it (like in violins, etc, ...). What plugins to use and how to configure them?Still I wan't the simplest DSP and the highest quality...

    Thanks.
     
  20. peate

    peate Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    513
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    28
    EQs P1 and P5 work well and don't use too many resources so you could have several for each channel. Just substitute for Timbre. Configuring is a matter of tweaking them to your liking. It's really a matter of personal preference and room acoustics. Experiment with different set-ups and you'll likely find the ideal combination eventually. Save various dsp settings and switch back and forth to compare sound. 24 bit is good if your source audio is also 24 bit or higher, otherwise it won't change anything.
     

Share This Page

visited