Discussion in 'Hardware Discussion & Support' started by IamLakota, Nov 23, 2008.
or if you're going 3-way SLI...
So your saying going 3-way SLI, but use onboard soundchip? There wouldn't be a whole lot of room left but there is a new card that is going to be released the X-fi Forte' that is native PCI-E 1 X and half height card... could fit almost anywhere. There are a few cards that can fit the bill.
I find it a shame when guys build awsome gaming rigs but leave out the audio as part of the equation. Games are made better by good sound reproduction.
well yea. the reason for that is because the current 3-way SLI configurations do not allow for any further expansion. perhaps that creative card you're talking about will fit the bill, but will it fit almost anywhere?
Actually, it is a Auzentech card and it is a half height card with a PCI-E 1X connector so it it quite small. Have a look here: Auzen X-fi Forte'
I think this is one of the reason they designed it in this manner so it is nice small and will fit almost anywhere..
I am buildign a X58 I7 system but I haven't decided on Crossfire or SLI as of yet. Have to wait and see. I would never sacrifice audio for GFX though. A great audio card makes games so much better in my opinion.
if the picture is what it looks like, then i don't think it will be able to fit. it will still require it's own PCI bracket on the rear of the PC, and current cases do not allow for any additional devices to be installed in the rear of the computer in a 3-way SLI configuration as all the brackets will be consumed as can be seen in the picture below.
after looking at this picture, this particular board being used does have a single 1x pci-e slot. it's a bit hard to tell, but it's there. it's just above the "graphics by NVIDIA" sticker/logo on the top card. so, in this particular board being used, any pci-e sound card would work there.
personal oppinion granted..... however
The realtek HD audio solutions have proven themselves a number of time to be vastly superior to that of creatives offerings let alone any other sound card out there unless your willing to fork over more for a sound card then you would for your high end video cards.
Dealing with considerable number of solutions.... Realtek simply just works and produces some incredible audio.
Highend machines have produced far worse results with even creatives top end sound cards or higherend sound cards then realtek solution.
ADI however is a bloody mess...... though, don't touch em.
ATM though, Realtek ALC 889a or the newer ALC1200 series are excellent onboard solutions. They excell in windows vista and windows 7 enviroments.
BTW.. with the gigabyte board i mentioned... it has a 4x PCI-ex slot above the primary video card slot...... so you'd have zero problems installing triple crossfire or triple sli.
Those onboard audio circuits are still only half of a good soundcard since they have to use the CPU for audio processing. Compare this with for example X-Fi cards that has it's own hardware processing. In general it's not a big issue but for some games out there that rely heavily on the CPU, onboard sound can steal a lot of performance.
Sorry, No. I have looked at the new specs for the ALC 889 and those #'s are nowhere close to most of modern soundcards. Not to mention, I doubt those #'s are real world anyway, considering most of the true numbers for onboards I have seen. They relay spec values not realworld #'s there is a vast difference.
Now the newest soundcard out are MANY TIMES better then anything onboard audio currently has to offer. for Dynamic range, SNR, THD%..IMD%..etc, You also lose gaming effects and hardware accleration. HW-accel. is not such a big thing as it used to be however most gamers I know still want it for their audio.
If you want to stick with onboard audio great, enjoy. Please don't pretend that people with soundcards are wasting money because most of us enjoy audio that is much greater then onboard audio. The X-fi I recommended because of size is not a Creative brand card, it is made by Auzentech. You say more for a soundcard them video card? I though your recommending 3-4X SLI, so that is quite the price tage to get nice high FPS. Some of the best soundcard out right now are less then $200.
I gotta go dig up an article that clearly states that the realtek ALC889a while didn't perform AS good in the SnR tests or some of the other tests, it did perform quite excellently. Using rightmark audio analyzer.....
i can't find the exact article in which not only creatives X-fi cards but Auzentech's higher end cards were all put to the test. The Realtek ALC889a series onboard solution went through all the same tests.
heres a quick one i found... i beleive the rightmark test was done on a ALC882 or ALC883 however...
The ALC889a is far better, and the ALC1200 series is better yet.
Creatives and auzentechs cards scored fairly similare to that of the realtek solution. In some cases realtek surpassed both marginally as well.
And i'm not recommending SLI or Crossfire, i never said anything of the sort.
I was just stating the FACT that onboard solutions today are conceiveably just about as good, if not as good, and under specific circumstances ARE better then any sound card purchased today that is sub $400+
Hell even the proffesional series audio solutions from say... an example being Motu, while may be superior in thier connections and mixing capabilities, SnR ratios, and whatever, but unless the drivers are up to the task where your not having problems constantly, well obviously it just sound great... when it works.
In the end, i'll just state this.
I would rather sacrifice nearly inaudioable differences, to gain stability, capability, user friendly. And in essense, under windows Vista, the hardware excelleration is pretty much moot, if i also recall a specific set of tests done, the auzentech was consuming more resources/cpu power then the realtek audio solution doing an identical job.
And lets not bring windows xp into this, it's a dead horse, people should have stopped beating it nearly 2 years ago.
You can believe what you want. I never said the onboards were bad, they just do not sound as good. If you want to talk yourself into "believing" you have good quality audio that can surpass anything, Go ahead. Others have much better and it is not inaudible differences nor unstable cards.
In Vista hardware accleration is not a "moot" point. Only for Directsound. OpenAL still performs hardware acclerations just the same as it always did and direct sound games can be patched to OpenAL so again full hardware accleration in Vista.
I prefer straight sound quality to harware acceleration if I had to choose. You don't need to buy a $400 card to get better audio then ANY current onboard. Umm, lets see, the Xonar DX is one of the cheapest cards you can get right now and is sub $80 and would smash if not obliterate any onboard audio for sound quality.
Onboard is getting better but is still not up to par with the current cards. If you want to compare a current cuting edge onboard to a card that is what; 3-5 years old then maybe, you may be getter close but will still lose out to features and overall sound quality.
As I said, if you like your onboard, then enjoy but please don't ever think your onboard soundchip is the end all of audio even at a budget price because you are sadly mistaken. Can we get back to the X58 now?
has far as the sound quality goes the only thing that matters is how it actually 'sounds' and from any given generation of sound cards vs the then current onboard the mid to high end sound cards always sound better than the onboard solutions.
onboard sound is an added feature that makes them $$ - they can charge way more for that feature than what they pay. personally i wished they had vers of the high end mb's that didnt have onboard sound on them. i mean how many peeps that can afford good gaming systems use the onboard sound. in fact id say the vast majority of peeps that play games, watch movies, listen to music on a regular basis have an add-on sound card.
and very nice comp!! gz.
I'm not talking myself into "beleiving".... i've trial and errored this with a number of people that have the ear for it. I was meerly pointing out that the orginal statement wasn't totally accurate.
Sorry yes, at the time i wasn't thinking of OpenAL..... while becoming common it's still not.... probably not even near close to 50% in use in games and such.
A yes, the Xonar DX.... I'm not sure it would come close to smashing anything, i played with one.....
Question is, have you sat down and played with the top end Realtek? Really?
Thing is, i don't have to compare it to older generation sound cards.... i can compare it todays cards... what's the point of comparing to dated cards... it's already being a worthwile competitor to todays cards. They are rather just as feature rich as the competeing cards, i mean you may end up with a few more inputs or nice tools, perhaps bundled software the the majority never have any use for to begin with. On the nice selling points of realtek alone is the fact that you can multistream audio, essentially being 2 independant audio devices which have very nice advantages. I mean i could go on for awhile about the specifics compared to others.
A remember, i meerly mentioned that i decided on my gigabyte boards with the added weight of it having the realtek audio.... You then brought up the subtopic.
And you'd be surprised how many highend machines come with no sound cards at all... and use onboard audio. There are people with quad crossfire and triple sli, with the top end overclocked machines... yet have no sound card..... it's really not that uncommon to see such a thing.
look guys, we're not debating how awesome onboard audio is over a stand-alone sound solution is or vice versa. this thread is about IamLakota and his new x58 rig. if you guys want to continue that debate on the performance of different audio controllers/solutions, then please do so in another thread.
the thing that initially sparked this whole debacle was that with 3-way SLI or tripple x-fire, you couldn't install any other kind of device if the MoBo didn't allow for it. A good example of this would the the 780i chipset MoBo. As you can see, it only has one pci-e 1x slot and 2 PCI slots. So, if you wanted to add in any other kind of PCI or PCI-E device and are running 3-way SLI, you couldn't do that.
Yes, already said back to the X58.....I see your point but you may be able to use for a Xonar DX which is half-height and PCI-E 1X or the New Auzen X-fi Forte which is also a halfy and PCI-E X1. I guess it depends on your Mobo and which GFX cards you own. When I build my new X58 I am thinking of going SLI but I will have to save room for my audio cards. That is my personal preference though...
Let me just add that I will support you any time you recommend a great non-Creative card. However, Creative's card are just not worth the hype. I would take good onboard souncard over it anytime. The difference is inaudible, and for the price of most X-Fi cards you can get better speakers which will make a lot more difference.
And don't get me wrong - X-Fi is an awesome chip. If Creative opened DSP resources it has to VSTi host, it would put some companies out of business within no time. However, Creative doesn't do what's right.
Lakota do you have it setup yet? I'm interested to read your impressions.
I don't think I recommended any Creative branded cards in this thread and usually don't unless the person is very low on cash and wants hardware effects. I recommended the Auzentech X-fi Forte' which is vastly different and recommended that because of the low profile and PCI-E X1. Auzen uses good quality parts and designs their cards for sound quality. I don't think CL cards are worth the hype either they use very cheap components and have overall low qulaity sound compared to what is available out there if you know what to buy. Most of the guys I know that even still own a CL card have them highly modified or use them in dual card sonfiguration with the Velbac software I helped develop.
I guess if any difference are inaudible or not from any given card or onboard to any other depends greatly on the quality of your playback gear. Back to the X58....
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