Discussion in 'Overclocking, Benching & Modding' started by ReV smokey255, Nov 17, 2004.
What is OTT-tier cpu???
OTT stands for Over The Top.
2500K is not over the top however..
Depends on the usage, as in all things. There are purposes for which a Pentium 4 is overkill. I would suggest that for the average gamer right now, a 2500K is overkill. Why? Because there are cheaper CPUs that will play everything fine.
But for all I know Ishank is a professional SC2 player, in which case a 2500K might be a sensible precaution!
I never played sc2 bro.:bleh:
A P4 is nowhere near overkill for any of today's applications. Before I upgraded to my current i5-3570k system, doing certain mundane things even as simple as browsing the web was slow.
The i5-2500 is certainly not OTT. An i7-3970k used for browsing Facebook and posting on forums every once in a while, yes .
I feel like you haven't understood me, and for that I apologise.
There are things for which a Pentium 4 is overkill. For example, if I wanted a dedicated TS3 server, or a computer just for playing classic MS-DOS games.
For most people's use, an i5-2500K is overkill. Keep in mind that most people don't overclock, so they'd have been better off with the i5-2*00, but even then, that CPU would still be overkill.
Take me, for example. I play every game I want to, and maxed out. I have FPS problems in none. My CPU is weaker than any 95W Sandy Bridge i5. As such, any 95W Sandy Bridge i5 would be overkill.
Is that clearer? Please take me quite literally.
I also want to know what purposes are overkill for a P4... :hmm:
you need to be specific for me and not speak in general sense.
read your last post.
I know what your issue or disconnect is....
you attempt or try to speak in a general sense when posting
but in actuality you speak for yourself and how you personally feel.
must realize that no two people are the same except for identical twins perhaps, that's all.
i mainly use my pc for gaming and my processor is serving me well. Many people in my country are still using a pentium 4 powered pc for their basic use like web browsering. If you have a ssd and an entry level gpu then even a p4 serves well for basic use.
I don't speak for anyone other than myself, and nobody does or should attempt to. That includes you, incidentally - you say above your avatar that you "speak for enthusiast", and your use of the singular is well judged, because I am enthusiastic (about hardware, which I presume is what you mean), but you do not speak for me. But what I can do is make observations based on my own experience and people I know. My "knowledge" of the world is largely based on generalisations from observations, as is the norm.
In this instance, I know people with CPUs significantly better and worse than (stock) 2500Ks, and with a variety of usages. Of the people I know with modern quads, even the few that game have far more processing power than they can tangibly benefit from. Of the half dozen I know with 2500K or better, all acknowledge that they have more than they need and a couple wish they'd gone for an i3.
But actually most people I know don't game and use 65nm dual-cores, and do fine with those.
It may be that I didn't understand you, yes. But, when you generalize a statement, I feel that you are generalizing for just yourself and the people around you and apply it to all people. When I generalize and say that a P4 is not powerful enough for most consumers, I can say that with confidence as I have had retail PC sales experience in the past. Whenever I would ask a customer what they'd be using their computer for, they would start listing off stuff they'd be doing. Knowing what's out there now in terms of software, what people generally do with their PCs when not working on an Excel, Word, or PowerPoint document, I can confidently say that the general populous will loathe using a P4 as it would be too slow of a system to use by today's standards for most of anything.
I can also say that due to personal experiences as well since I retired my main computer, a s478 3.2Ghz P4, back in December. Browsing the internet was decent, but if I wanted to play a web based game or some free game provided by Chrome, my P4 would run like crap due to it being over taxed. Hell, even running the flash based ads on most websites would cause it to just run slow. It was simply too slow for just about anything except run Word, Excel, and PowerPoint.
However, if you're going to be using a P4 based system as a data server simply for storing all of your data on it and nothing else, sure, I can agree that it will be plenty fast for that.....provided it has a 1GB NIC added in .
I never said that anybody would be happy with a P4 in their main PC in 2013. That would be daft. Even if someone only used MS Office and Firefox, I wouldn't recommend less than a Conroe dual core.
I find this new point of view here contradictory to your previous one. If a P4 is OTT, then why wouldn't you recommend anything less than a Conroe dual core?
I give up even trying to comprehend his disconnect sometimes..
I feel like neither of you have actually read my posts. I know this for sure in CD's case, because he is sure that my most recent post contains a new point of view. Perhaps my use of language is obtuse, I can't rule that out.
These two points are not mutually exclusive. Please try to get your heads around that.
You can jump to whatever conclusions you want about what you think I might be saying, but if you read what I actually say you'll find it to be coherent.
Things I have not said (and which are incorrect in my opinion):
A P4 is a sensible CPU to be using in 2013
Anyone would be fine with an i3
Nobody should buy a 2500K
Things I have said:
There are uses for which a P4 is overkill
E.g. MS-DOS games machine, in case your imagination is failing you
There are uses for which a 2500K is overkill
There are uses for which a P4 is not overkill
There are uses for which a 2500K is not overkill
The implication which started this whole torrent of "disconnect":
A 2500K is overkill for most people
Please keep in mind here that most people are not "enthusiasts" or "gamers" like you and I.
Which of the above bullet-points do you wish to contest?
You know for sure I haven't read any of your posts? Were you standing right here when I was reading them?
Perhaps it's the wording that you're using that makes it difficult for us to understand what you're trying to get across? This isn't the first time it's happened, so this is a possibility; a language obtuse, like you said.
What started all of this was...
Technically, stating that a P4 and an i5-2500k in the same comment is what started this all
As for which point do I contest specifically? The both the 2500k one being "overkill" and to an extent, the P4 being "OTT". Most people now will use an i5-2500k based system appropriately. The average consumer are doing things such as watching H.264 movies, converting files from one format to another (think ripping DVD or BR movies and then compressing them), using work related applications that consume CPU and RAM resources such as Excel and Outlook, playing music, using a web browser, etc. People simply just do more now with their computers. Additionally, there is always the consumer that is also a casual gamer - not enthusiast - that will play games on their computer. And if said game is a Flash or Java based game through a browser, we all know that the CPU consumption will skyrocket because of that.
While yes you have said that a P4 is not sensible to use now, the fact that you stated that a P4 is OTT was also a sticking point. Yes, a P4 system can run MS-DOS applications and whatnot, but really, how many people out there still do that unless there is a specific program that is still currently being used that is needed? MS-DOS has since been replaced by winPE and winPE is used more for SI to use as a tool which would do many of the same things that MS-DOS would normally do already. The way I see it, MS-DOS is really only needed to do BIOS and other firmware updates. Even then, it's typically done through a DOS bootable USB flash drive.
I guess I should mention that I assume that you wouldn't imply things you don't know to be true. If that assumption can be held to be true, then the only possible conclusion is that you didn't read my previous posts (or forgot about them or something, which would be bizarre in the context of a forum conversation).
You make some valid points about the 2500K for non-hardcore users, but then these points also apply to a pair of Xeon E5-2687Ws, and I'm guessing you'd say they were overkill? Even if I just restrict myself to gamers I know, none do any encoding work, and those that play games play them at 60FPS with (in many cases) fairly lowly CPUs - this depends on the game, of course. I guess I don't know many people that are into the likes of SC2 et al. in a big way, but people who are would be well served by a 2500K imo.
I mentioned the P4 to try to illustrate my argument that what is or is not overkill entirely depends on the intended usage.
With regards to my language, I guess it's been shaped in a big way by my academic pursuits, and that means that it's designed to be taken very literally, and that I do not mean to say anything that I do not strictly imply. When I say that a P4 is OTT, you need to take the whole sentence (that it is OTT for certain uses), or you will not understand correctly. Then again, I feel that this rule should be applied to reading anything really - from the news to your favourite novel.
Anyway, thanks for the detailed and polite response.
Not sure what happened to the pics I took right after I built the thing about a year ago today..
I'll probably find them in a few years.. who knows.
Anyway I added a second fan to my cpu cooler (push/pull), and added two more Western Digital Black series SATA6 1TB hard drives so I snapped a few quick pics.
Was dark/ bad lighting, and no tripod used so grainy nasty pics. Oh well. Someday I'll take some glamor shots. It looks good when turned on and all lit up with deep blue glowing from within.
A year later and my PC still rocks and crushes any game and encodes video faster than I could ever complain about. Stable as hell at 4.2ghz w/ 4 cores, 3.9 ghz eight cores on air with default voltage.
I'm happy with my CPU especially since more games are making use of the actual power it can deliver with more than one core. With twin OC'd Windforce GTX 670 gfx cards, overall this thing is a beast.
I have to say, I didn't "make a bad move". I'm completely happy with it in real life use, not focusing on CPU benchmark results.
I'm guessing that Mal's point was not that your CPU is rubbish, but that you could have gotten at least as good an experience for less money.
Anyway, I like it. Nice rig.
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