Recording Wave HQ 24/96 - required tweaks

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ursamtl, Feb 16, 2007.

  1. JGSF

    JGSF New Member

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    I have asio4all set-up like this.
     
  2. ursamtl

    ursamtl Montrealer

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    Thanks Johnny, that looks pretty much the same as how I set mine up. However, for some reason, it's giving me a constant ticking noise. It's not the sound of a system with latency set too low either, it's a loud constant ticking. Perhaps it's because I installed kx after ASIO4ALL. I also don't think I have the latest ASIO4ALL but one a couple of versions old. I'll try re-installing it tonight.
     
  3. ursamtl

    ursamtl Montrealer

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    Ok, so I re-installed both kx and ASIO4ALL last night but I'm still getting continuous stuttering on playback. My PC is a dual core Athlon x2 3800 in an Asus A8N mb , so the system isn't exactly underpowered. I tried different combinations of settings in Asio4all but with no success. Mind you, this was using Plogue Bidule only. I haven't tried any other DAW software with multichannel outputs, but Asio4All worked fine in 24/96 over the Creative drivers. I normally used the 24/96 Creative driver itself for multichannel work but occasionally Asio4all was quicker because its channel order matches the ITU 5.1 standard (Creative's doesn't).

    As for non-ASIO output, I notice that the kx Wave HQ outputs are only showing up as one stereo pair in Bidule. Is it possible using other DAW software to do multichannel HQ output? I seem to get that impression from what I've read, but perhaps I'm wrong. If it is possible, I may discuss this with the programmers at Plogue. They're usually quite open to suggestions for improvements, etc.

    I also noticed last night that the open source program Audacity features a "Play through" check box that allows one to monitor stereo HQ input through the HQ outputs while recording. It works flawlessly.
     
  4. Maddogg6

    Maddogg6 Tail Razer

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    multi-channel comes in 2 flavors (from OUR point of view)
    A) something like DirectSound directional audio -or- AC3 Encoded
    B) Discreet / Independent access to each output channel.

    In Sonar - yes - I have 4 discreet Wave HQ outputs.(WaveHQ 0/1, 2/3, 4/5, 7/8) as shown here:

    but you will not have discreet access to all 4 outputs available if you ONLY see 1 'stereo' WaveHQ device.

    Note: WaveHQ INPUT is 2 channel only.
     
  5. ursamtl

    ursamtl Montrealer

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    Great! Can these be accessed simultaneously? To play back for example, a 5.1 mix?
     
  6. Maddogg6

    Maddogg6 Tail Razer

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    Yes - Sonar has a 5.1 mixing capability - AND you can also use the LDII headphones output (if you have a Live Drive II)

    Let me correct my last post.

    Wave HQ offers 4 STEREO outputs. We can use ALL simultaniously and individually.

    Send a different mix to 4 different outputs - yes its possible.
     
  7. nakamichi

    nakamichi New Member

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    Has anyone tried recording in 24/96 with a SB0240 (Plain Audigy 2 Retail without an ext./int. drive)? Does this work at all? I know this (10k2) card is supposed to work,but I can only get it to record in 16-bit mode by using Wave 0/1 as input,but can have Wave HQ (p16v) for playback/monitoring in a DAW / host.Wave HQ input doesn't work.Is this card somewhat limited?

    I just can't get this card to record in 24/96 no matter how hard I try.

    I've set the default playback and recording devices in Windows to WaveHQ,set the p16v recording source to 'I2S 1',unmuted the AC97 recording slider in the kX Mixer recording page,set AC97 recording source to LineIn and unmuted the LineIn slider in the AC97 page.Finally,I enabled AC97->I2S routing. I tested with Audacity in MME mode and with Cockos REAPER in DirectSound and WDM KS mode.It doesn't work.I used 24bit/96kHz in Audacity with software playthrough and 24bit and 32 bit in REAPER.Nothing works :(

    I see most of you are SB0350 (A2ZS) users so can you do some tests for me: Can you record in 24/96 from the Line In on the back of the card if you disconnect the internal/external drives? Does any of you have a SB0240 card to test and see if 24/96 recording works on this particular model? Can you post some screenshots of your kX DSP setup you're using for this? Does 24/96 recording work with the initial DSP setup (the one that you get when you reinitialize the DSP) or you have to make some more changes? Does 24/96 recording work for you in REAPER? (get it from www.reaper.fm)

    I think I heard a rumor before (24bit recording in SoundForge) that the SB0240 can't record in 24/96 with the kX drivers,you have to use the Creative ones to be able to do this. 24/96 only works with the A2 Platinum eX and the A2ZS models.Is this true? That's why I need someone with a SB0240 to test this.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2007
  8. Max M.

    Max M. h/h member-shmember

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    hmm, just tried (with 38L) - yep - does not work for me too
    looks like a bug - because it did definitely work with earlier versions...
    could you try I or J?
    (funny, so serious bug was discovered so lately...)

    >24/96 only works with the A2 Platinum eX and the A2ZS models.Is this true?

    that rumor arised from fact that "Creative ASIO 24/96" driver was not shipped with A2 (only with later models). But is was "marketing only" limitation - not technical.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2007
  9. Maddogg6

    Maddogg6 Tail Razer

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    Yes it can work in 24/96 - but if your trying to record SPDIF input thats NOT 96Khz - it won't convert to 96Khz (as I would expect).

    For instance; if I try recording a 20bit 48Khz spdif input in Sonar set to record @ 24/96.
    Then, say I record 2 measures - upon hitting STOP from record mode - that clip shrinks to 1 measure in length (48000/96000 = 1/2) and sounds like a chipmunk.

    But if I record any I22 analog input - it works fine.

    edit:
    I did mention this - but no response

    http://www.driverheaven.net/bug-reports/130495-wave-hq-spdif-recording.html
     
  10. Maddogg6

    Maddogg6 Tail Razer

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    Make sure the 'Rout AC97 <> I2S' is enabled

    and P16V record source set to I2S 1 - and it works for me in sonar w/ WDM.
    edit: and in Windows sound recorder too.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2007
  11. Maddogg6

    Maddogg6 Tail Razer

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    P16V bypasses kX DSP so is only used if recording 10K X P16V record source (I forget which one will route REC L/R into P16V) with Wave HQ.

    I never tried reaper btw.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2007
  12. Maddogg6

    Maddogg6 Tail Razer

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    Oh - and maybe you should make KX mixer changes BEFORE loading the application - and I never tried MME either. Id think WDM is preferred anyway for lower latency.. ?? (I thought anyway)

    Using ASIO4ALL for instance wont take changes when I would expect otherwise. Maybe thats interfering with your tests.. ?? It drove me nuts trying to figure out ASIO4ALL
     
  13. nakamichi

    nakamichi New Member

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    I knew this was a bug.I used an older version before (I think it was 3538f or older) and I know I managed to get 24/96 working with SoundForge.
    Same thing happens now with the UDA output - it just doesn't work for me with the newer versions.With previous versions of the kX drivers + old ProFX plugins (the separate AC97 ones) UDA was working great.I could toggle between AC97 and UDA and see a ~10dB improvement in noise level with the UDA codec.There's no difference now.

    Thanks for the reply,Max :D Now I definitely know there's nothing wrong with my card. It seems there are too few people here with a SB0240 and those that do have one don't use it for recording.That's why I don't get many replies.

    I'll test some of the older builds now and see if I still get this issue.

    Who cares about the Creative 24/96 ASIO driver,when the kX driver with kX 16/48 ASIO sounds better? :D
    For 24/96 support there's always ASIO4ALL which does a nice job (until Eugene finally implements *fast* 24/96 ASIO in kX)

    I also don't get it why do you guys use only 2 software buffers with ASIO4ALL (with the kX drivers)? I get a much lower latency when using 4 buffers.Yes,2 more buffers equals double the latency,but then you can set the latency slider to an even lower value than half of what was before,so technically you get less :D
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2007
  14. nakamichi

    nakamichi New Member

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    I don't do any SPDIF recording or recording from external 'I2S 2' (LD) inputs.
    I'm talking about the standard LineIn/Mic (I2S 1) inputs on the back of the card.
    Route AC97 -> I2S is enabled and P16V source is set to I2S1.Everything's been set correctly,but there's no input signal going to any app.
    It must be a bug with SB0240 cards only,since I think those with SB0350 can record from the 'I2S 1' Line In in 24/96.
    I set everything before and I even restart the host after each change in the kX Mixer/DSP,but no luck.

    BTW,you should definitely try REAPER.It's like RoutingHeaven :D
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2007
  15. Max M.

    Max M. h/h member-shmember

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    i've tried all inputs (i have platinum one - but it is the same sb240) - they all are dead at WaveHQ - so it is something with p16v initialization i suppose. I thought Eugene did not change anything in this context with recent versions - but it looks like he did.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2007
  16. nakamichi

    nakamichi New Member

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    Oh,that's too bad to hear.3538m is lovely - it's one of the best builds ever (especially for 10k2 cards).Eugene finally fixed the 24/96 router skin problem and the kX ASIO performance is faster than ever with the new 10k2 modes.Shame there's a nasty bug like this creeping in this version.I find it hard to go back to a previous version and deal with the soundfont playback,2496 router and ASIO problems.I hope Eugene fixes this soon for the next build.

    There's another small issue that's still not fixed.When 'Show window contents while dragging' is disabled,the context menu and the new plugins you add in the kX DSP are out of place.This gets annoying,so if you add a plugin that goes out of view (it's not there even if you set maximum DSP window size) you have to reset/clear the DSP.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2007
  17. Maddogg6

    Maddogg6 Tail Razer

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    heres 1 main reason why I won't.

    With Sonar I am confident that with each upgrade of sonar - old projects will open and I won't loose anything. I have projects I made originally in Cakewalk ProAudio 6 from like 7+ years ago - upgrades were never a problem - and sonar does all I need to do, and I am already comfortable with it too...so - as the old saying goes - don't fix what aint broke. But I do wish Sonar would support multiple ASIO devices, but I can live with out that.
     
  18. nakamichi

    nakamichi New Member

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    Max M.,can you test if the UDA inputs of ProFX ADC are working with your card with the 3538L drivers?

    I tried an older version (3537),but this version doesn't even have a 24/96 Router or a P16V ->I2S switch.
    I added the newest ProFX plugins (for 3534) to the DSP and tried to activate P16V ->I2S through the ADC plugin,but no luck,same story as with 3538m - no HQ recording and no UDA.
    I gotta try 3538c now,I think that was the version that worked before.

    Does anyone still have/host previous versions of kX? I need the builds from 3538A through H (anything from 3538C onwards has the 24/96 Router and 24/96 recording support)
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2007
  19. Lex Nahumury

    Lex Nahumury DH Senior Member

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    Well, no need to do that.
    If something doesn't work using default kX DSP setup and tools, it won't 'magicaly' work by using any of the ProFx plugins.
    It's more the otherway around;
    If something doesn't work with ProFx, check if it works with kX defaults.
     
  20. nakamichi

    nakamichi New Member

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    Nevermind,I already found 3538C,G,H and a tweaked 'H+I' version on an old backup CD. It's good to keep backups of old software,you never know...you might need it again in the future.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2007

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