Request For Eugene Gavrilov

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by thomasabarnes, Mar 10, 2006.

  1. thomasabarnes

    thomasabarnes Long Time ***** Friend

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    First some comments:

    As a matter of fact, the truth that the kX Project's Audio Drivers are the most important part of the Project, is not placed in light frequently. I want to just let Eugene know that I am really thankful for this project, and it has made music production with the compatible sound cards to be competitive with users using professional level gear, in my opinion! For instance, the low latency, routing possibilities, and sound quality capabilities that can be obtained using kX are just a few obvious performance characteristics of kX that excel the performace possibilities using the original manufactuer's drivers, and that's certainly notable! So, it may have not been mentioned much, but thanks for "expanding the potential, expotentially," Eugene!

    Because other programmers have joined the project, kX has become even more powerful! And one of the outstanding programmer contributors is Lex Nahumury (LeMury). The ProFX plugins have become a very important part of kX for a number of kX users, especially, the ADC plug in! This plugin makes it possible to record mono Line In and Mic sources simultaneously to separate tracks.

    Also the ProFX MX6 Mixer has become a popular plug in among kX users. There has been a request from a number of forum active kX users who desire to have a MX8. This has been brought to the attention of LeMury. I personally made a request for a MX8 to LeMury, and he responded that:

    "...a mx8 would be nice but kX API has a limit of ~64 parameters per plugin.
    Since I use a trick to store the Edit Label characters as parameters in the preset, and the fact that MX6 itself already has 40 controls (= 40 parameters), I can't squeeze an extra 2 channels out of it unless I dump the channel labels.

    Eugene has added some extra storage feautures but IIRC they
    reside in KXGUI which I dont use."

    Now, I know that kX was started in the days of the SoundBlaster Live! and Creative Labs development has evolved to an Audigy, Audigy 2, and now X-Fi since then, and other issues exist that limit certain evolvement of kX for newer Creative sound cards, but I ask, if you have the time, and if it is possible, can you make it possible for LeMury's plugins to evolve further? For instance, reading the comments of LeMury above, can you make it possible for a MX8 (meaning adding more parameters per plug in)?

    Also concerning Max M.'s Plug ins In uniform (UFX):

    These were some earlier posts that reflected the desire of kX users to have Plug ins In Uniform (UFX) to be compatible with the newer kX driver versions, and it will be a great big plus to have them available:

    So my request is for making the present kX Drivers (or .3538 Final, which you believe will be available shortly), compatible with UFX as well as making it possible for a potentially evolving ProFX.

    Eugene, I really hope you can make something happen here. And I know about the endeavor you mentioned in the most recent kX Status thread you posted concerning kX users or prospects wanting and open source type of kX driver. All your work is really appreciated. May life be well for you, considering your contributions to a living community.

    Are you still a SONAR user?:D

    Whatever the situation my come to end as, I wish you well, and thank you for the kX Project.

    Other kX users, If you have an interest here. please, speak up and let your concerns be known.

    Eugene:

    Please note what Max M. conveyed concerning features of the .3538 SDK: "...some of these features are broken in present 38 SDK. so i'm waiting for SDK to be fixed"

    Is it possible to fix this or can you contact Max M., so things can be worked out, so Max M. can release his popular UFX package to be compatible with current kX driver versions?

    Edit:

    I have edited my 1st post to delete my statement that Creative drivers and software don't have the ability to record Mic and Line In to separate tracks simultaneous. We're a nice group around here, and I don't want to be inaccurate. Sorry if I offended you. But, I still think Creative's drivers and software kinda sucks.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2006
  2. jiiteepee

    jiiteepee Active Member

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    Where did you got this information from?, or do you mean ability to record with any software the way that the left channel becomes fully panned lef and the righ channel fully right on resulting audio (well, who needs this type of ability nowadays)?

    I have not had any problems with recording from these sources as mono (i.e. L/R separated like LineIn L - el-guitar, LineIn R - el-bass, mic acoustic guitar) to separate tracks simultaenously using original Creative drivers in ASIO mode.

    I think the only 'bad' thing with Creative drivers is that the AnalogMix() covers all other possible analog sources found on card board but the Mic --> there are Aux and CD-Audio connectors onboard (Audigy 2 OEM here, without the external unit) which are both analog stereo channels and which would bring together 4 mono inputs more into use --> that would be nice --> 2 digital (SPDIF-In/CD-Digital), mic and 6 analog (LineIn L/R, AUX L/R, CD Audio L/R) line inputs into simultaenous use (+ the TAD-In which ones ' quality' I have not tested yet).

    I have not installed the kX driver set yet, but hey, are these inputs (Aux and CD Audio) selectable as separately on kX?

    jiitee
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2006
  3. thomasabarnes

    thomasabarnes Long Time ***** Friend

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    jiiteepee:

    I haven't used the Creative drivers for a while, but if I recall correctly, Line In and Mic sources could not be selected at the same time (unless a Live drive or audigy drive was used for Mic 2 or something).

    When one is selected the other is not available to be selected in Multitrack recording software. Do you experience differently?

    I don't mean using a spliter on the Line In or Mic jacks on the back of the sound card. The ADC ProFX plugin makes it possible for any user of a compatible sound card to plug a Mic in the Mic jack and another source or 2nd Mic in the Line In on the back of the sound card and record both signals at the same time to separate tracks using multitrack recording software.

    Nevertheless, my point is that the ProFX plugins are useful and make kX even more powerful, so I'm requesting Eugene to increase the number of parameters each plug in can use, so that the ProFX plug ins can continue to evolve.
     
  4. jiiteepee

    jiiteepee Active Member

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    These I/O's can be select independently on Sonar with Audigy 2 SB0244:

    http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/2819/sonarasioinputs3vl.jpg


    As you see there are
    - AnalogMix() which covers the analog input channels "Line-In 1"," Aux 1" and "CD-Audio" (+ some other not so important channels)
    - Mic-In 1 (last choice),
    - and some other input channels for external unit

    Selecting any source of them won't disallow the other ones
    --> you get LineIn R/LineIn L (or CD-Audio R/L or AUX L/R if you have jacks for them), Mic, "SPDIF-In" into simultaneous use.

    I tested this (since I do not use this setup for recording anymore (got DAW with pro gear for that) and everything worked well --> only the result signals on tracks are not panned left or right as you would be expecting (maybe DSP? affects) but you can do the panning on track settings. I used separate L/R cables with this test.
    - e-acoustic Guitar (it's own pre-amplified mic) on LineIn L (track #1),
    - (Acoustic Guitar + Mic) through Mic-preamp on LineIn R (Track #2),
    - Microphone on Mic (Track #3)


    jiitee
     
  5. Lex Nahumury

    Lex Nahumury DH Senior Member

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    Sure, but you are refering to your audigy2 (10k2) based card
    which has an on-card secondary codec,
    thus providing us with 2x2 = 4 analog inputs.
    (same as in kX)

    What Thomas means is that with kX (using special plugin)
    we can select AC97 device's recording sources seperatly for Left and Right channel,
    and set the coresponding analog gain seperatly.
    For example:
    AC97 Left -> LINE Left (or any other ac97 analog input)
    AC97 Right -> AUX Right (or any other ac97 analog input)

    or:
    AC97 Left -> LINE Left (or any other ac97 analog input)
    AC97 Right -> MIC (or any other ac97 analog input)
    etc. etc.

    We can do this for every compatible CL card.
    I can't remember wheter or not this was/is possible with CL drivers.

    No, One can not have more analog inputs as there are AD converters
    on the card.
    What you can do with kX (as described) is;
    AC97 Left -> AUX Left
    AC97 Right -> CD Right
    ..or whatever,
    plus in your case the additional 2 analog inputs
    of the secondary codec.

    So without any livedrive/bays/extensions;
    SBLIVEs (10k1) 2 analog mono inputs
    AUDIGYs (10k2) 2x2=4 analog mono inputs (if second codec is present)


    /Lex.
     
  6. thomasabarnes

    thomasabarnes Long Time ***** Friend

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    I don't think is yet possible with the Creative drivers to record 2 analog input sources simultaneously to separate tracks because the Creative Surround Mixer only has 1 record source that is able to be selected. Stereo ASIO Mix (or What You Hear) can be selected, but that means the 2 input sources will not be recorded to separate tracks. So, unless Creative's Mixer has changed to allow the selection of 2 or more input sources, there is a limit of recording only 1 input source at a time using an Audigy, unless Mix is selected as the record source (but Mix will not allow recording both signals to separate tracks, but the 2 signals will be recorded together on a track).

    So agian I say: I don't think it is yet possible with the Creative drivers to record 2 analog input sources simultaneously to separate tracks.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2006
  7. BODYPRINT

    BODYPRINT New Member

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  8. thomasabarnes

    thomasabarnes Long Time ***** Friend

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    Looks like it's still a Mix deal. Can you post a pic of the Creative Surround Mixer (or whatever the new Creative Mixer is called). I'd like to see how many record sources can be selected at the same time.
     
  9. jiiteepee

    jiiteepee Active Member

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    Surround Mixer for Audigy 2 Zs. AnalogMix() is active (but this is not needed when using ASIO drivers --> these settings are bypassed with ASIO and WDM/KS --> you set everything on software.

    CT Surround Mixer:

    http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/1593/ctmixer1jz.jpg


    Windows Play/Recording Control panels:

    http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/5458/wacpanels6ty.jpg



    BTW: As known, when using ASIO drivers, rec source selector on surround mixer is bypassed. I noticed (today) that you get "What U Hear" into use with ASIO drivers if you select the "ASIO Mix L" or "ASIO Mix FL" as input source on Sonar (there is "SB Audigy 2 ASIO WUH [xxxx]" driver mentioned on Windows registry --> maybe this is the way it works?).

    jiitee
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2006
  10. ROBSCIX

    ROBSCIX New Member

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    Creative has a "Analog Mix" that is a mix of LINE/CD/AUX/TAD/PC I personally don't like this. Is this what your refering to? I would love to have UFX and PROFX on the same card..Now I have another issue as I have a SB 400 that is not compatible with anything below 3538i, so I cannot even use UFX on this card. I am waiting for the day when it is all possible..maybe when 3538 is considered stable and the SDK is fixed..who knows...I can't complain becuase I love what the developers hav done for us so far...but I can wish...
     
  11. jiiteepee

    jiiteepee Active Member

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    ASIO just bypasses this .rec source setting, found on on Surround Mixer --> you select your input source(s) inside th software you're using --> you saw all available input sources listed in Sonar (picture I linked earlier).
    There are AnalogMix(), which gives two analog mono channels and the mic (isn't the mic_in mono on audigy 2 or is mine ... ?) --> you can record 2 analog channels (line-in R/L) + microphone simultaenous, all to it's own track.

    And as I mentioned already, I did try this after reading your post, and it worked as I remebered it's been working always (since got this A2 autumn 2003).

    You should just try before making conclusions on unfa...


    jiitee
     
  12. Eugene Gavrilov

    Eugene Gavrilov kX Project Lead Programmer and Coordinator

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    thomas,

    concerning MX6..MX8: I've only received feature request from Lex today :)

    Max's UFX: there's no such SDK bug that would prevent Max from re-compiling UFX. The SDK for 3538 has been available since its first release (years ago). The only cosmetic issue with 3538j SDK is related to 'minimize' button found in kX DSP window (the blue triangle) - for skinned plugins it is still drawn by kX Mixer, however, this small button cannot be considered 'bug in SDK' or something that would prevent 99% users to work with UFX plugins. That's why I don't see any -serious- reasons why UFX hasn't been released for 3538 yet.

    Eugene
     
  13. thomasabarnes

    thomasabarnes Long Time ***** Friend

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    Eugene:

    Thank you for the reply! I'll try to get Max M. to see your post here.
     
  14. Max M.

    Max M. h/h member-shmember

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    thomasabarnes
    thanks for your care. we are in contact with Eugene - so i hope all the problems will be solved one way or another.

    E.
    >only cosmetic issue
    he-he, nice try. (fixme - did i say "bug"?)
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2006
  15. thomasabarnes

    thomasabarnes Long Time ***** Friend

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    I saw your pic, but that means nothing to me. I think I used to see similar ins/outs when I was using the Creative dirvers and software with this Audigy I have, yet when I tried to record Line In and Mic to separate tracks, I was unable to do it!!!

    I'll get the lastest Creative software again and I'll see if any thing has changed to enable me to do this. Maybe it's a sound card specific feature.

    I'm saying I don't think what you say is possible cause I tried it about a year ago using YouPax mod drivers. I can think what I want to about this, and you can disagree if you want. Furthermore, I dont think I'm being unfair because I tried it and it didnt work. When I get time, I'll install that Creative stuff, and try out again.

    Still, kX drivers and software is better than Creative for ASIO latency that can be achieved, Routing capabilities, and sound quality for all the compatible sound cards. As a matter of fact, it took Eugene to make Creative's claim of as low as 2 ms latency a reality for me. Creative made this claim when the Audigy 1st came out, not the Audigy 2. And, I was having issues using the Creative drivers years later with 20 ms latency. So, even if Creative finally got some good feature working now, kX is significantly better overall in performance and looks!!!

    EDIT:

    jiiteepee: vbmenu_register("postmenu_831015", true);

    I have edited my 1st post to delete my statement that Creative drivers and software don't have the ability to record Mic and Line In to separate tracks simultaneous. We're a nice group around here, and I don't want to be inaccurate. Sorry if I offended you. But, I still think Creative's drivers and software kinda sucks.

    Besides you're a fellow SONARian.:D If I make any more inacuracies, please, let me know.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2006
  16. thomasabarnes

    thomasabarnes Long Time ***** Friend

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    Max M. Oh that's great news!!!! Please keep us posted concerning your progress. We sure would like to see UFX compatible with .3538j!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Max M., Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     

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