Shouldn't the kXproject be Open Source?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by HTShade, Jan 25, 2005.

  1. HTShade

    HTShade New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2005
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    It looks like (but I might be wrong), that the kXproject is heavily based on ALSA and previous Linux drivers.
    Shouldn't then be an open source project?
    Being a tool and not a goal, open sourcing the project could bring an averall improvement to the thing.
    I am just asking for comments, please do not flame me.
    The kXproject is a remarkable piece of software anyhow.
     
  2. JohnMcClane

    JohnMcClane New Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2003
    Messages:
    146
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    kx doesn't even support linux - it is based on creative's drivers though

    and it is at least partly open source, you can view source code of all plugins and write your own
     
  3. dj_stick

    dj_stick Apple Fanboy?

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2003
    Messages:
    17,575
    Likes Received:
    204
    Trophy Points:
    88
    some parts of kX cannot be open source, due to several NDAs and stuff like that
     
  4. BiCho

    BiCho Audiotecna- Representante

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2002
    Messages:
    178
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    26
    what is an NDA?
     
  5. igor_levicki

    igor_levicki Intel Black Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2003
    Messages:
    128
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Why do I have impression that this has been asked already?
    Author has signed NDA that prevents him from disclosing information used in development of this project to public.
    I see that Linux open-source community is doing some reverse-enginering of both Creative and kX drivers in order to find out how to support advanced features that Creative cards offer such as 24/96, etc.
    I am saying this based on a source file p16v.c from ALSA drivers which is full of commentss like "kX drivers set this to x value" not to mention register dumps and trial and error method used in determining what bit controls what function.
    While I appreciate efforts to keep everything open to public unfortunately it is not possible in some cases. nVidia for example keeps their driver closed-source but they in return provide us with very good drivers.
    On the other hand, fact that the Creative is ignoring Linux all together probably means that they don't see Linux as a market for their products. In the end it all comes down to manufacturer support -- if they had provided quality drivers for Linux there wouldn't be any need for open-source drivers.
    I would suggest to ALSA team to sign the NDA with Creative and get the specs needed for writing unified drivers for Creative cards that will enable advanced features. Write the driver and distribute it as a binary which gets linked against glue code for kernel module (like soft-modem and display drivers already do). Users will have the option of using old open-source drivers and new closed-source drivers at their discretion.
     
  6. Lex Nahumury

    Lex Nahumury DH Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2003
    Messages:
    1,944
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    0
    non disclosure agreement
     
  7. Turja

    Turja New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2004
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    But in the end it's the end-user (we all? :)) of the product whose problem these restrictions are.
    If Creative would have interest in making advanced software and drivers for their cards, kX Project wouldn't even be needed.
    They are also ignoring the needs of many Windows-users by bundling their hardware with all kinds of (excuse me) shit - that's what their current software-tools are.

    Of course it's great to have this project even at the state it is now, but it's very sad that it depends on only one developer who doesn't have time to maintain the software atm.
    And thanks to the restrictions: there's nothing we can do about it.
     
  8. thomasabarnes

    thomasabarnes Long Time ***** Friend

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Messages:
    1,404
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Yeah, it's pretty messed up.
     
  9. NightBreed

    NightBreed New Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2003
    Messages:
    380
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Alsa won't sign a NDA agreement because that would prevent the drivers from being open. That would mean that all the independent devels of other projects would have to sign this too and that would really slow development.
     
  10. logos1

    logos1 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    if i signed a NDA for the documents in reference.. would eugene be willing to share the code?
     
  11. igor_levicki

    igor_levicki Intel Black Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2003
    Messages:
    128
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    There is no need for anyone else not working on the emu10k1 branch to sign the NDA. Just those involved in drivers for Creative cards based on emu10kx.

    Development of that particular branch (emu10k1) is slow enough already and it can only benefit from signing the NDA and getting vital information from the source (Creative) instead of having to waste countless hours on reverse-engineering and debugging resulting in suboptimal drivers, lack of important features and slow introduction of the support for new devices.

    Therefore your point doesn't hold water. Get serious.

    That is on Eugene to answer but I believe that the answer would be "no". There is no need for that anyway since the drivers are architecturaly different from Linux driver model.
     
  12. pzad

    pzad New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2004
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    AFAIK there is no way to get specs for emu10k1 and emu10k2 from creative for opensource developpers, even if you sign NDA - you can get spec for some other chips, but not these two.
     
  13. Eugene Gavrilov

    Eugene Gavrilov kX Project Lead Programmer and Coordinator

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2002
    Messages:
    3,146
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    48
    if you sign NDA, CL will probably release 10k1 specs (which are completely known already), but won't release 10k2 specs. p16v-related sepcs were released to us and to some linux company selling the drivers (not opensource). however, most of the specs are either outdated or incomplete. any 'special' features, such as card difference, GPIO interface, livedrives, etc.. are not present/documented.
     

Share This Page

visited