The future of Image Resizing...?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Forum' started by MiDri, Aug 29, 2007.

  1. MiDri

    MiDri New Member

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  2. Maddogg6

    Maddogg6 Tail Razer

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    hmm - very impressive - competing HDTV makers beware... This tech fixes a lot of problems with HDTV.

    *Hopes Photoshop is watching*
     
  3. OmegaRED

    OmegaRED Relapsed Gamer

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    Holy crap that's awesome.
     
  4. Judas

    Judas Obvious Closet Brony Pony

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    that is damn awesome..

    that basically fixes a crapload of scaling problems and even ratio issues.... they could essentially make 4x3 video into 16x9 using that system without making it look like garbage.
     
  5. Tril

    Tril Triple screen racing ftw

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    What I found most impressive is the way that someone can be removed from a picture without changing too much the content around that person.
     
  6. Judas

    Judas Obvious Closet Brony Pony

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    indeed
     
  7. mkk

    mkk Well-Known Member

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  8. MiDri

    MiDri New Member

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    Adobe actually just hired one of the lead programmers that made the application. [Source]

    This was my first thought when I watched the video and they replaced the kids on the beach.
     
  9. Matth

    Matth Flash Banner Hater

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    And how many examples didn't it work on? Impressive demos, but I bet it fouled up at least as many times as it gave those impressive results.

    If they could expose it as an online application to test on your own images, that would prove something.
     
  10. mkk

    mkk Well-Known Member

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    Yeah it's a classic joke in photo editing. I just felt like illustrating it, though I probably should have used Illustrator too ;)

    They probably aimed to get the attention of some investors, not the Nobel price comitte.
     
  11. Maddogg6

    Maddogg6 Tail Razer

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    Also from that page...
    But I have no doubts this type of tech will eventually show up in adobe's products (Better is my guess. It is still V1.0.) - this guy seems pretty talented.
     
  12. YAYitsAndrew

    YAYitsAndrew Anti-Piracy Poster Boy

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    An important thing to know about any sort of graphics research is that the presentations are often "cherry-picked" to look more impressive than they really are. They want to get attention and money. I took a graduate graphics course where we'd take white papers on techniques like this and implement them, so I've seen this first hand.
     
  13. Maddogg6

    Maddogg6 Tail Razer

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    *singing*
    'Every party needs a pooper, that is why we invited you.... party pooper'

    Sorry - my dad used to sing that song (no, NOT when I entered the same room..)

    Granted - its likely to be far from perfect - but so is the magnetic path tool in photoshop. For now - if it works some of the time is OK with me...and for video - few would notice the artifacts it would likely leave when it is *likely* improved.

    Like, instead of finding 'similar pixels' - as explained in that video - how about 'pattern matching' - oh crap did I just let loose of a good patent idea ..?? oh well.
     
  14. Judas

    Judas Obvious Closet Brony Pony

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    IMO, i'd rather take the likely chances of little artifacts this system woudl produce then the obvious garbage that happens when you try and resize and do the work yourself without taking several dozen hours.
     
  15. YAYitsAndrew

    YAYitsAndrew Anti-Piracy Poster Boy

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    The more detection algorithms you run on the image the more you have to worry about cpu and memory overhead. If either gets too large, you'll compromise your ability to apply the technique in real-time. There are lots of other detection methods that could aide this, like edge detection or face/figure recognition. The trick is to get them working fast.

    I think the best use for this technology, though, isn't in video (think about it and you'll agree) but as a photo editting tool so the authors are definitely going the right way with this.
     
  16. Judas

    Judas Obvious Closet Brony Pony

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    Well of course photoediting...

    i meerly pointed out the advantages of perhaps taking it a step further and applying the technique to perhaps resampling video files..

    they could potentially use this to increase the number of frames per second in a video as well, completeing the frames between each giving it a smoother playback.... alot of places this could end up going, but as it is in it's infancy right now, i'm impressed.

    With ever increasing computer power... we'll see how things roll out.

    I could however see such a program having a hell of a hard time managing to extend or decrease images in the 12MP range hey?
     
  17. Maddogg6

    Maddogg6 Tail Razer

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    Revenue wise - I dunno - I would think this tech is even better suited for a web browser (HUGE audience) for still images - than a photo editing app (limited audience) - its kinda the point of the 'automation' the demo illustrates - imo... But, will someone like Firefox pay to license ????

    So - I still contest - the biggest gains revenue-wise is in fixing the current problems with HDTV - or more specifically - enticing *everyone* into shelling out big $$$ (compared to tube SDTV's) for that new wide screen - the biggest complaint I hear about is the whole stretching that happens - making people all look short and fat - OR having screen real estate un-used on the sides of the screen. I know its my biggest complaint too.
    And HDTV makers are - imo - the biggest spenders with the most to gain.
     
  18. Judas

    Judas Obvious Closet Brony Pony

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    indeed maddogg...
     
  19. YAYitsAndrew

    YAYitsAndrew Anti-Piracy Poster Boy

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    I'd like if HDTV used this (for cable, mostly) but I don't think it will ever be a fully automated process. This technique changes the image without consent of the author and with no regard to the audience. What if it modified the image in some way to make a character in a kid's show inappropriate? Or what about changing the context of an object on the screen? In one case, a flower garden in a romantic scene could just be scenery and can be safely expanded without modifying the mood of the romantic kiss, but in another case you're watching a gardening show and you really don't want the flowers to be modified in any way because they've been arranged purposely.

    For these reasons I think shows would have to broadcast hints to the algorithm for it to be able to properly resize the image and maintain the image's integrity and purpose. At that point, you'd have an easier time convincing stations to just go fully HD.

    Most damning, I'd say, is that the tvs that support this algorithm would all need to support the same algorithm; a standard would need to be in place. If you thought broadcasting one set of hints for a standard is crazy, imagine having to do the same work twice. Once for microsoft's implementation and once for sony's. Match this up with the fact that the generally public isn't really complaining about 480i video quality on their big tvs, and certainly not avoiding buying a better tv because of video quality.
     
  20. Maddogg6

    Maddogg6 Tail Razer

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    I think it could - errors from it would likely be either un-noticed - or accepted as 'better' than the current alternative.
    But the same is true with stills - no? I mean how many people actually use watermarking on their copy written pics posted on the web - as the video author demonstrated with text dynamically changing.

    This tech could also fall under 'Fair Use' - as it *could* just be converted BY the end user - for their FAIR USE - just not recorded with mods applied.

    I believe a 'standard' could be achieved, even if using multiple algos.
    TV by nature *is* standards based in many ways - erm, with out a standard - TV would not exist.

    Well, this is over simplified imo...
    Its the combination of
    1) cost
    2) expected quality difference
    3) real world quality difference

    *Some* people wont immediately notice quality improvements unless a side by side comparison is made. 'Black Levels', Color resolution etc.. that HD boasts.

    But - *everyone* notices stretching (also a 'modification made with out the content authors permission') and black bars.

    This tech could very well open a messy can of worms - much like MP3s did - but they also still exist reguardless - a lesson that; consumers *can* win some battles when it comes to 'fair use' media.
     

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