There are still people buying Intel?

Discussion in 'Flame Warzone' started by JavaFox, May 15, 2002.

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  1. JavaFox

    JavaFox E Pluribus Unum

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    I often wonder about Intel users. Why do they still exist? I'm really not sure. But I am thoroughly convinced that Intel fanboys (and girls, as the case may be) are the lowest, stupidest, and least-in-touch-with-reality fanatics of them all.

    You see, it's kind of hard to deny that NVDA puts out the fastest 3D cards on the market. Yet there are still ATi fans. Why? Well, the ATi fans have good points. The R8.5K is significantly cheaper, produces a better picture, and, really, who needs 300fps ANYWAY? Those are valid points. And that's what makes fanATIcs legitimate. Because they aren't blind followers, wooed by advertising -- they actually have a reason for going with what arguably is the underdog.

    But Intel fans? They have no reason to stay loyal. Intel plays with inferior architecture. Surely Netburst represents the first time a new processor has ever been released with a decreased IPC rate. And the P4 really represents the first time, in my opinion, that a processor has been sold soley based on marketing. SURE the P4-2.53GHz is faster than the AXP 2100+ -- it has an 800MHz advantage!

    What? Your Pentium III 1.4GHz is faster than my Duron 600MHz? You don't say!

    But the P4 is not all that much faster. For a processor with DOUBLE the L2 cache, DOUBLE the clockspeed, and 800,000,000 more cycles per second, why in God's name is its performance advantage so despicably minute?

    And, to top it all off, Intel processors are so prohibitively expensive that you could easily build a decent PC for the price of one of their newest. You're going to pay HOW much for a sliver of improvement?

    Intel fans suffer, I think, from mental illness. I say this with as much sensitivity as I can muster, because we must take all mental illnesses seriously and address it with compassion. Perhaps much like Marines that die when they retire*, Intel fans are afraid of change. They have always used Intel and they cannot even conceive of using something else. So they continue buying Intel. And to rationalize this behavior that is quiet obviously ridiculous (even to them in their diseased state), they hide behind FUD.

    Things like "Athlons burn up."

    Or "Athlons are unstable."

    Or "Athlons are only good for games."

    Only one of these assertions is based on fact. The other two are about as accurate as the claims of the Flat Earth Society (http://www.flat-earth.org). Athlons aren't only good for games. They have a superior FPU, and they perform better in FPU-intensive applications. Things like 3D graphics, video editing, and media encoding. They are good for these tasks for the same reason Macs are. FPU, FPU, FPU. And anyone that can call Athlons unstable obviously has never touched one. And, yes, Athlons can burn up -- if you're a DUMB PIECE OF SHIT that puts the heatsink on backwards. If you can't line up the raised area on the socket with the indented area on your heatsink, then, yes, by all means, buy an Intel processor. Pay an extra $100.

    We don't want you anyway.


    ---------------

    * It is actually a statistic that some (not sure about the number) Marines that have been in the Corps for more than 20 years DROP DEAD when they retire. They are so used to the structured environment that they cannot handle the shock of readjustment and die of anxiety. I am not making this up.
     
  2. Silentst2000

    Silentst2000 Can I be cool?

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    Yeah...Love how when you fan fails your chip burns up or sudden shuts your com off causing data loss when the p4 can thottle its self down.

    I also like how you don't need a 8k rpm fan to keep the puppy cool.

    I also like how well these things o/c.

    I love the fact that I don't have to put up with via shit sets.



    Lol the athlon is not as good as the p4 in video editing and media due to their massive memory bandwidth advantage..

    These things own athlons in quake 3. ;) (sorry had to s ay that)

    I like how I only have to use 1 hand to lock my hsf on firmly and not worry about it busting my chip or poping off. (and if it pops off I don't have any smoke)
     
  3. Malus

    Malus BSD SMASH!

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    Re:

    1. Get a water cooling system. :p

    2. You can overclock an Athlon too.

    3. You can buy an ALI, AMD, or SiS chipset.

    4. I wouldn't call it a massive advantage. Don't even tell me it's because of the Rambus crap, or else I'll have to beat you with a trout.

    E. With all the money you save by buying a higher performing Athlon, you can finally buy the rest of the parts for your PC, instead wondering why you couldn't afford a motherboard after paying $508 for your processor, which only runs slightly faster than a much cheaper Athlon.

    F. Athlon is such a damn cool name.
     
  4. JavaFox

    JavaFox E Pluribus Unum

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    Chip throttling is an extremely controversial method of cooling, but that doesn't necessarily mean I disagree with it. It does strike one, though, as being somewhat devious to spontaneously underclock a processor and NOT tell the customer about it. Hm.

    As for me, I've never had a fan FAIL on me, and even when I've started up my PC without a fan, all it does is lock up after some use. I let it cool, reboot, and it's good to go. The chip didn't burn up.

    I don't have an 8K RPM fan on my CPU. The only fools with 8K Deltas on their CPUs are the ones that WANT 8K Deltas on their CPUs. Me, I have a ThermalTake Volcano 7 (cost me $23) that I UNDERPOWER for acoustics. I hate noise. I run the fan at 7V instead of 12V. It is much quieter and sufficiently cools my processor.

    P4s overclock well, yes. That's because they need to. They need an enormous frequency advantage to compete. And, hey, if you want to run around with an inflated FSB, that's fine with me. Too bad you can't change your multiplier, huh? And, while we're on the subject, if you're willing to pay a LOT more for a processor so you can o/c it, when don't you just buy a high speed Athlon? Hmm...

    I love the fact that I get to USE Via chipsets. Via writes excellent drivers, and I've never had a problem with stability. I've had my PC rendering 3DSMAX images for 48 hours straight before. My system didn't even hiccup. That's rock solid. Everyone knows that VIAs aren't the best for Intel processors, but they are golden for AMD.

    Only with the release of the most recent 2GHz+ processors have P4s been able to compete alongside Athlons in media encoding and video editing. And even now, with their massive frequency advantage, s00per FSB, and Jumbo Size L2 Cache, the P4s only SLIGHTLY outperform their AMD competitors. Go ahead, TRY and show me otherwise.

    If you define the legitimacy of your processor based on its performance in the aging Q3 engine, I really can't help you.

    Like I said in my previous post, if you're such a dumbshit that you can't put a HSF for an Athlon on properly, then maybe you are better off buying Intel. While I think AMD needs to add a heatspreader, I still maintain that a trained monkey could put on a HSF for an AMD. All it takes is some skill and a little knowhow. If you don't have that, then why don't you just go buy a Compaq or something?

    And if you've EVER had a HSF POP OFF its socket, then Albert Einstein was RIGHT*.

    --------------

    *Albert Einstein once said (paraphrased): "There are only two things that are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not even sure about the universe."
     
  5. Malus

    Malus BSD SMASH!

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    Ouch, score one for AMD.
     
  6. brc64

    brc64 Zeeky H. Bomb

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    I like Intel. They have a better looking logo. :)

    Seriously, though.. I know that AMD has the price-performance thing down, but that doesn't make Intel totally worthless. They have some of the most stable chipsets in existance. And in all honesty, if you have a recent AMD, you most likely have VIA in your system somewhere. I know there are alternative chipsets, but VIA has to be the most common. Hell, even the AMD 761 chipset uses a VIA southbridge (which, BTW, has an unconfirmed compatibility problem with the ATI AIW 8500DV). Maybe some people have good experiences with VIA, but a LOT of people do not.

    I'm not saying that Intel chips are better, but they could be worse. My next upgrade will be a Pentium 3. Why? Because it's cheaper than any reasonable AMD solution. I have an i815e motherboard with PC133 RAM. If I wanted to go AMD, I'd have to pick out a new motherboard, I'd need a new power supply, I'd definitely have to go DDR (which means new RAM), and then you throw in the price of a CPU on top of that? No thanks. P3 for me.

    I may switch to AMD later on, but it will be a long time. For now I'm sticking with my Intel for my CPU, ATI for my video, and CREATIVE :eek: for my sound. And I'm perfectly happy. :)

    - Me
     
  7. Jeff

    Jeff Yarr... I be blind!

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    Well I have an ALi Magik1 (in an IWill XP333-R Rev.1.3) and a VIA KT333 (in an ASUS A7V333-R) and they both run amazingly well. (The VIA has my 8500DV in it :p)

    My VIA KT333 system is what I don't O/C at all, or anything, it is my stability system, and I am on it right now. I have been running it straight for almost 2.5 weeks and no sign of any slowdown, and its been perfectly stable (capturing, watching TV, doing GFX, etc, etc...)

    So I would buy another VIA chipset for sure. Or another ALi (Magik2 :D:D)

    (BTW Both are using Samsung PC2700 DDR333, the IWill is running at 191Mhz (@ 2.7V) and the ASUS is at 166MHz (@2.5V).)



    //CYBORG//
     
  8. JavaFox

    JavaFox E Pluribus Unum

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    Let's hear something new

    You ever notice how Intel fans all have the same arguements? And they are never valid, either. Before you critisize the VIA platform, why don't you actually USE it? KT266A is incredibly stable -- like I said before, I've had it running with my Thunderbird at 100% CPU utilization for two straight days.

    Intel fans really need to find a new drum to beat. Athlons are not unstable. They run hot, but not so hot that it takes a Delta to cool them. The decision to use a Delta fan is one of personal preference, not necessity. Athlons are not just for gaming. If you're rendering 3D, or encoding media, and you are using an Intel processor, you are throwing money away and wasting your time.

    brc64, in your case, yes, it would be costly to go with AMD. Now if you had only made the right choice in the first place.... ;)
     
  9. applicator

    applicator New Member

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    I am running a SIS735(ecs k7s5a board) no probs. CHEAP. can you say CHEAP $90 cdn(maybe cheaper american). I can score 9000+(3dmark2001se) with my radeon and ddr. The whole system(xp1600+, 20gb wd hdd, radeon8500, pci c-media sound,AND 512 PC2700 SAMSUNG333) cost me a TOTAL of $650 cdn. My fans and PSU are extra of course(dragon orb3 and globalwin on my radeon,3x80mm fans, 2x60mm fans and 320w TTGI psu) $170 cdn.Case was inculded in the price.

    Lets see an intel p4 come close to performance and price! :p
     
  10. Silentst2000

    Silentst2000 Can I be cool?

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    Ok my 130 1.6A over clocks to faster speed(performance not just mhz) than the top of the line athlon would offer.

    To take an athlon to work at my same performance would mean.
    a great o/cing chip with good cooling.

    Ok so now lets define good cooling.

    All I need is a retail cooler.

    You would need at least a water cooling setup.

    Ok tack on 150 bucks.
    so now your 80 buck chip costs 230.
    Mine is now 100 less.
    I'm running DDR so are you so costs are nulled here.
    So that's assuming your 1600+ o/cs to 2200+(mines at 2.4 ghz so ill give you 200 pr points sence yes athlon xp has a greater ipc and tends to be faster in SOME area's and have a greater ipc)
    How many 1600+'s o/c that well?

    hmm...

    I havn't seen many.

    Now I have seen many 2000+ hit 2200+...
    So lets get a price quote from pricewatch.com
    150 bucks.
    30 bucks more than mine and its an oem mine is a retail.
    so slap on 50 bucks for that alpha cooler and you can now o/c.
    I have yet to see a 1.6A not do a 33% o/c but I have seen motherboards offer some trouble at that speed. Mine does not.

    My motherboard cost 120 bucks and it has all the features of your standard motherboard.

    It is no at7(er right?) abit board with every bell and whistle out there. Its just a standard mobo with raid.

    Now sence amd and intel motherboards are about the same cost wise you can not argue that.

    Now lets talk about the kt266/kt266A chipset. :)

    Intel doesn't release extra chipsets to fix bugs they do it to increase performance and add more feature's.

    VIA does not.

    I own both a kt266 and a kt266A and the kt266A doesnt have any of the usb problems and is greatly faster.

    They are also releasing the kt333A with a new pci bus to fix the problem with pci bandwidth which greatly affects scsi cards and the like. :hmm:

    my 1600A 4bda2 512 samsung cost me 330 usd. :p 360 shipped.

    Oh and over clocked scores me around 10k 3dmark 2001 with my 64 8500 retail.

    And my video card isnt o/ced or tweaked. :p

    Lets talk about cooling for my computer.

    ANtec sx 830 with 2 vantec stealth 26 cfm fans and a enermax whisper psu.

    retail HSF with AS 3...

    CPU load 44C

    The loudest thing in my computer is my deskstar 60gxp.

    I own a xp333-r and it is extremely stable...havn't had it lock once. (can't say the same for my via!)

    No deltas are needed...

    "It does strike one, though, as being somewhat devious to spontaneously underclock a processor and NOT tell the customer about it. Hm."


    ROFL.

    Yeah when this baby over heats I'd rather have stability...not instability....and guess what?

    It's still running at 2.4 ghz its just that all the tranisters arn't switching on and off. :)


    And it only throttles down at like 70C which is no wehre near 44C which it max loads after 3 hours. :p

    Ali magic 2 has major performance issues due to its extremely high latency problems with ddr memory hence why its memory performance tends to suck.

    " if you're willing to pay a LOT more for a processor so you can o/c it"

    I didn't ...see above

    " Via writes excellent drivers"

    hahahahahahaha
    those things have hosed my computer once or twice before and countless others.
    Why do you think kyle@hardocp.com always says to backup your drives before doing it?
    It seems like every weekt hey release the 4-in-1 to fix bugs and general issues. I don't see intel or sis doing that?


    I like how it made all my drives "scsi" which completely fucked my cd-roms and didn't go away when I uninstalled it.

    "If you define the legitimacy of your processor based on its performance in the aging Q3 engine, I really can't help you"

    Can't take a joke? nvm.


    "Like I said in my previous post, if you're such a dumbshit that you can't put a HSF for an Athlon on properly, then maybe you are better off buying Intel."

    i've taken off reseated and exchanged hsf's on like 3 of my amd chips like 4 times and I've yet to break a chip because I do research and don't use hsf's with clips of death.

    But i'm not everyone and I keep on seeing people buring their chips up and/or chiping the core. I've NEVER seen anyone fry a p4 yet.(well with the exception of people doing PIN mods to it.)

    Yes AMD needs to but their Heatspreader back on their chips and guess what? Amd is using the same/similar hsf mounting design as the p4 with the opteron.


    "1. Get a water cooling system.

    2. You can overclock an Athlon too.

    3. You can buy an ALI, AMD, or SiS chipset.

    4. I wouldn't call it a massive advantage. Don't even tell me it's because of the Rambus crap, or else I'll have to beat you with a trout.

    E. With all the money you save by buying a higher performing Athlon, you can finally buy the rest of the parts for your PC, instead wondering why you couldn't afford a motherboard after paying $508 for your processor, which only runs slightly faster than a much cheaper Athlon.

    F. Athlon is such a damn cool name."


    1. Costs too much.

    2. Never said you couldn't.

    3. I know that's what I do. Fuck via.

    4. Rambus ownz j00. :) J/k I use ddr rambus is a dead path and yes it does offer greater performance for the p4. Though when dual channel ddr hits the p4 that will disapear.

    E. I payed 130 bucks for my chip.

    F. Well the blue man group likes my chip better than yours!

    "Lets see an intel p4 come close to performance and price"
    Everyone knows that and I agree...at stock speeds :p

    But if you need the best performance and don't want a hairdrier....

    Intel can't be beat.

    "Ouch, score one for AMD."

    Heh little pre-mature there....

    ""Athlons are unstable."
    Na just their via shitsets...amd and sis chipsets rock.

    "DUMB PIECE OF SHIT"

    Speak for yourself.
     
  11. Silentst2000

    Silentst2000 Can I be cool?

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    Lets not get into clock speeds and the such because of the "megahurtz myth":)

    Athlons are ment to be very efficent.
    P4 is ment to ram up clock speeds quickly and in a few years they are saying they might have 5ghz-10+ cpu speed advantages over amd.
     
  12. JavaFox

    JavaFox E Pluribus Unum

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    Pick a side

    Silentst2000, I apologize for the tardiness of my reply -- I have trouble reading posts with no capitalization.

    At any rate, I have a problem with your arguments.

    You, on one hand, argue that AMD's are a poor choice because they're so thermally sensitve (which is absolute FUD -- AMDs can run up to 90C before dying). You argue that the cores are easy to crack. Like I said, though, trained gorillas can put on HSFs correctly. But when I call you on it, and call your competence into question, your reply is roughly this: "I don't have a problem with HSFs, but the average joe does!"

    Okay.

    But, regarding price/performance ratio, you argue that the Northwood is a better choice because it overclocks so well.

    Wait a fucking minute.

    On one hand, you berate AMD for not making HSFs stupidly easy to put on. YOU don't have a problem, you say, but the hoi polloi* does. Yet you argue that P4s are better because they overclock higher. Uh, since WHEN was overclockability something that concerned the average Joe? I don't get what perspective you're arguing from. If you're arguing as an enthusiast, then --like I said-- drop the HSF complaint because it doesn't apply to you. If you're some sort of consumer advocate that thinks AMD needs to idiotproof their procs, then why the HELL are you touting overclockability?

    Pick a damn side

    ----

    * Look it up.
     
  13. reno

    reno Painlord of Ichor

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    AMD fans are like goths

    Has anyone ever noticed how "gothic" persons seem to always latch on to some principle or style to claim their own, flaunt, and valiantly defend, even though hundreds or thousands of other "unique" people latch on to the same thing/belief?

    That reminds me of AMD users.

    To tell the honest truth, I have a 750 duron running in my second computer with a geforce 2 pro for LAN gaming, and it runs okay, if a little hot. But all of my other computers have been intel based for the reasons below.

    Not once have I had a defective CPU or seen one, come from intel. I deal with dozens of systems based on AMD and Intel processors everyday, and I have seen at least three AMD K6-2's burn because of voltage irregularities in an AMD chipset motherboard. I currently have a 200mhz pentium 1 MMX running at 266Mhz on a 75Mhz frontside bus with fastest ram timings on a 430TX intel board, and have had it that way for 5 years. I also have a pentium 4 1.7ghz system running at 2.0ghz on a 118mhz frontside bus with no core or ram voltage increases on a P4x266 VIA chipset based motherboard, and have had absolutely no problems what-so-ever.

    My Pentium 4 scores 8231 3dmarks in 2001SE, and pulls off 19.2 average fps in Codecreatures benchmark with a Geforce3 Ti500 overclocked to 255/580. According to what I've seen on the internet this beats out an Athlon XP clocked (not performance rated) at 1.7ghz. Which if I remember is a performance rating of what? 2000? 2100? And this is all with the stock 2400rpm hsf intel gave me with my processor.

    My Duron system with an Alpha PAL cooler runs under load at 52 degrees celsius, idle at 43 degrees. My Pentium 4 running 1250mhz faster with a stock cooler runs under load at 40 degrees celsius, idle at 28 degrees. Ambient temperature in my house is a chilly 24 degrees celsius.

    Intel has excellent customer service. When it came to finding the newest drivers for my old 430tx based P1, which was released about 5-6 years ago, I couldn't find a download anywhere on the net. Contacted Intel tech support via email and they emailed me a bios update and Win98 driver. This was about 4 years after the chipset was retired.

    AMD has a horrible business model. Their stock is crap, they are constantly in debt, and they are always on the trailing edge of innovation. AMD bought technology from Transmeta's Crusoe line of processors to compete with Pre-fetching technology from intel. AMD undercuts intel's prices to the point that their net profits were around 400 percent worse than intel's last quarter. AMD has taken close to 6 months to come out with a .13 micron process consumer CPU. AMD used intel's MMX and SSE technology only after intel had established it and licensed it to AMD, conversely, Intel has licensed and uses none of AMD's technologies. AMD thouroughbreds STILL run hotter and require more voltage than a northwood CPU. With less transistors and a smaller core size, why does a thouroughbred require 1.65v to run stably at 1733mhz while a 2533mhz northwood requires a scant 1.5v for a core twice as big and a system bus twice as fast?

    And to make this a true flame...

    AMD stands for Athrophied Monkey Dongs.
     
  14. Malus

    Malus BSD SMASH!

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    Re: AMD fans are like goths

    Anyone who makes comparisons based on benchmarks optimized for specific hardware configurations should be shot. Have a nice day!
     
  15. JavaFox

    JavaFox E Pluribus Unum

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    FUD and outdated information

    Your comparison of AMD fans to goths was quite entertaining. And in a few ways, you are right -- about some fans. But this wouldn't be a flame board if we got along, so I'm... uh... going to... have to disagree with you.

    I'd say that 90% of Goths don't know what the Gothic period was even about. They don't know what the architecture of the time period symbolized. They truly are bandwagon kiddies. And I hate bandwagon kiddies. And there are AMD fans like that, too. I'm talking about inbred country-ass motherfuckers that are like "Ah reckon that Billy Bob done told me that AMD Athalon see-pee-yous are better for gamin'!" They don't know a damn thing about AMD procs and what makes them better. This type of fool is an unwelcome addition to the growing AMD Horde.

    But you and your ilk, reno, remind me somewhat of the people that were like "Uh, that band is SUCH a sell out! They are waaaay too pop for me!" when The Offspring put out Americana. You're way too caught up in the politics of it all. (Oh, and by the way, I don't give a flying fuck as to what your opinion about music is.) There are people that shrink away from things once they start getting popular because they define their identity and indivuality by that thing. You are one such person. There are a few morons that are moving towards AMDs because their friends all are. And I'm not interested in fighting on the same side as these people. But the vast majority of recently indoctrinated AMD fans CHANGED TO AMD BECAUSE AMD IS A BETTER CHOICE.

    I don't care that it's getting popular. Creative is popular. Intel commands 75% of the market. I don't buy from either of those companies, because I think their products suck. Period. It has nothing to do with anyone else. And the reason I buy and am loyal to AMD? Well, that's because they put out superior products.

    It is truly the arguement of a feeble mind and a faltering loyalty when you have to call us all bandwagon followers. Why don't you go watch some more P4 Alien commercials -- maybe you'll feel better.

    Your comment about AMD procs being defective? Moot point, since you only discuss K6s. They don't make those anymore. They haven't for a LONG TIME. And, you know what -- those WERE bad procs. Has no bearing on here and now, though. Nice try.

    If your Duron runs 52C, you're doing something wrong. My 1.4GHz TBird @ 1.533GHz runs that warm, even with an ambient of 32C. You're doing something wrong. Don't blame AMD for your own inadequacies.

    AMD's business plan is far more sane and logical than Intel's, but I won't even GO into the minutiae of it all. You don't know a thing Come back when you OWN some stock and know something about Intel's financials and we'll talk. Until then, I won't have a battle of wits with someone who is so obviously unarmed.

    GRR! If there's one way to make ME mad, it's the assertion that AMD doesn't know how to innovate! You fucking ignorant assmonkey! Let me ask you something. Do you consider every car after the Model T NOT innovative? The Prius isn't innovative? Of course it is. But that's the argument you're using now. AMD, yes, uses x86. Wow. Is that all you've got? I've said it before, I'll say it again -- FIND ANOTHER DRUM TO BEAT, WORTHLESS INTEL WHORE. Okay, let's go down the list. AMD was the first to incorporate RISC tech into an x86 processor. AMD was the first to a 100MHz system bus. AMD was the first to use a DDR system bus on a consumer level PC (Hey, isn't that what Intel is doing?). AMD was the first to 1GHz. AMD was the first to get a processor based on the P6 core HIGHER than 1GHz (It took AGES for Intel to figure out how to do that). AMD was the first to use DDR memory (Isn't Intel following suit here, too?). AMD is miles ahead in SOI technology. AMD was the first to produce an x86 processor capable of 1GFlop. And we'll see whether or not Intel mimics AMD's x86-64 (Yamill? Mebee). There are more examples of AMD innovation, but I'll let you absorb these for now.

    AMD does a lot of building on Intel's work. But that doesn't make them not innovative. One of the industry benchmarks used to judge innovation is the number of patents a company is granted. AMD has more innovative by this standard than Intel in both 2000 and 2001.

    So, anyway, like all Intel fans, you used all the same arugments and pulled the same punches. Frankly, if you think something's a bad choice simply because a lot of people are migrating to it, I don't give a shit. You stay where you're comfortable. I know you have to rationalize your choice.

    But it's people like you that miss out on good music and good processors.
     
  16. JavaFox

    JavaFox E Pluribus Unum

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    One more thing

    And another thing, reno -- you can't compare two processors' performance when one is o/ced and has an inflated FSB.

    Not very scientific.
     
  17. Silentst2000

    Silentst2000 Can I be cool?

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    Hmm
    "I have trouble reading posts with no capitalization."
    Surely, your not talking about me...
    If you are then...

    SHOULD I TYPE IN ALL CAPS SO IT IS EASIER FOR YOU TO READ?!

    ;)


    Ok round 2.

    Sence when is
    "But i'm not everyone"

    "I don't have a problem with HSFs, but the average joe does"
    Where did that come from?
    I've seen many enthusiast fry their chip and bust their core.

    Never was I talking about "joe 6 pack"(directly) when it comes to overclocking or computers in general...why.............
    BECAUSE THEY DON'T FUCKING BUILD THEIR OWN COMPUTERS!
    THEY DON'T BUY WATER COOLERS!
    THEY DON'T BUY INTEL OR AMD TO OVERCLOCK!
    THEY DONT CARE ABOUT BENCHMARKS!
    THEY DON'T BUY HIGH END AIR COOLERS!

    :eek:

    "But, regarding price/performance ratio, you argue that the Northwood is a better choice because it overclocks so well."

    I said that AMD has a better price/perf at stock speeds northwood in over clocked state. There is a difference.

    Joe 6 pack applys to stock speeds there incase its confusing. :eek:

    "you berate AMD for not making HSFs stupidly easy to put on."
    No I don't.
    I berate amd not having a standard mounting bracket for their chips.
    Also, vantec has a great clip design for their hsf's.


    Also, AMD doesn't make their own retail coolers....coolermaster does but i'm sure that's not what you ment. :p
     
  18. JavaFox

    JavaFox E Pluribus Unum

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    Let's bend our mobo!

    On a lot of motherboards, the P4 HSFs and the way they mounts causes the motherboard to bend pretty severely. It's actually quite frightening. Unless motherboard manufactures do something to counteract this (like Aopen, with their plastic bracing on the bottom of the board) I think it won't be long before we see a lot of boards with hairline fractures.

    That being said, though, I do like Intel's coolers for the Tualatins. But prior to those, Intel made the shittest HSFs known to man. The clip on those pieces of shit was atrocious.

    Personally, I think it's pretty easy to put on HSFs for AMDs. Your milage may vary, I suppose.
     
  19. Ryoko

    Ryoko American Soldier

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    Re: Let's bend our mobo!

    depends on the hsf and the tools you use. when i was testing my unlocks, i had to take my heatsink off more than a dozen times. my bro's super-hsf took nearly 10 minutes to take off and put on, whereas mine took 10 seconds each way.
     
  20. JavaFox

    JavaFox E Pluribus Unum

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    Re: Let's bend our mobo!

    Admitedly, but the assertion that AMD HSFs are hard to put on is a joke. Especially considering you have so many choices for aftermarket coolers.
     
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