Vista and 7.3 Display driver atikmdag stopped responding error

Discussion in 'AMD Graphics Cards' started by the-bullet, Mar 29, 2007.

  1. nplmx

    nplmx New Member

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    failed

    Ihavee been having this problem anywhere from 2 times a day up too every 5 minutes untill i reformat.....so i rma'd my first his radeon hd3870,,,i then proceeded too use my radeon x1950xt (without a reformat in between only new drivers) and the error cotinued,i reformatted and the error was permanatly gone for 3 weeks,got my his 3870 back,reformated and reinstalled , 1 day was fine,,no vista updates ,2nd day i was getting it at least 2 times daily again,now this is the worst problem ive ever had ina pc,and i know it has something too do with vista,with vista updates installed(im thinking particularly sp1) the problem begins too happen anywhere from 5 minutes too a half hour,this renders all things undoable for me,i might not that this only happens during gameplay ,3d applications,etc.now i have tried the new fix without ccc and only the driver package from ati,,this has stopped it mostly ,but not completely i am still getting it at least once a day,and there is atikmdag files in your windows/system32 files by the way.here are my system specs

    Windows vista 32-bit home premium
    1000 watt cooler master psu
    his radeon hd 3870 gpu
    asus m3a32-MVP wifi deluxe motherboard
    amd Phenom quad core 2.3 ghz cpu
    2 gigs (in dual channel) of crucial ballistix tracer ram
    western digital 500 gb hd



    Ireally hope someone can permanetly fix this soon this has become an insanely major issue.
     
  2. SilverDev

    SilverDev New Member

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    Possible solution for atikmdag crash - Vista

    I've been dealing with this issue consistently since I got my new laptop. It's an Asus F8 (was the company sysAdmin's idea, not mine). It's completely standard, except that I uninstalled some of the Asus crap. No overclocking, no messing with anything. Came with Vista Home Premium. Blue screening at least once, sometimes 2-3 times each day.

    I have a second monitor plugged into the VGA port. Only happens when the monitor is plugged in, not when the laptop is on its own. I'm a developer, my job is a pain in the ass without a second monitor, so just not using it, wasn't really an option.

    I found the one reproducible way to get the error, was to let my machine shut down the monitor in power saving. I would set monitor power-down for a minute. Wait a minute, + 10 seconds, move the mouse to bring the monitors back up, crash. I went into Task Manager, killed CCC.exe, tried again, no error. I'm going to run for a few days, killing the process each time I boot up to see if it goes away. If so, then I'll uninstall, and install the driver without the CCC. Not sure how much of a pain that will be on this machine, but worth a shot.

    Got the idea from here:
    Tutorials-Win.com >> Vista >> atikmdag error message/computer freeze. - Microsoft Windows Forum

    Enjoy and good luck!

    SilverDev
    -=-
     
  3. SypherNL

    SypherNL New Member

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    You probably don't even need the CCC. I never really used it atleast, and if you want things like mirroring: ultramon is your friend :)
     
  4. garycase

    garycase New Member

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    Driver-Only seems to fix !!

    I've had this issue for six months since I built a new PC using a 2600XT. The system is a multi-boot system with several OS's, but the problem only occurs with Vista. I've not been able to reliable "force" it to happen ... but it happens at least every 2 or 3 days, and sometimes much more frequently.

    I basically just started leaving it booted to XP -> which NEVER has the issue; and only booted to Vista Ultimate on occasion just to "play" with Vista and, as available, update the Catalyst drivers to see if the issue was still there. When I upgraded to 8.3 I had a ray of hope ... it was 2 days before the issue happened again -- but it still did.

    However, the suggestion here to uninstall CCC and just leave the driver installed seems to have been the fix !! Did that 3 days ago, and have had NO recurrences. It's nice to be able to leave the system booted to Vista :p

    Now if the NEXT version of Catalyst for Vista would just FIX this !!
    (But I certainly understand the difficulty of doing so when it's not apparently a simple-to-replicate issue)
     
  5. axmt

    axmt New Member

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    To Make sure that the Fix that worked for Myself is totally understood by all, I will explain how we got JUST the DRIVER and no other ATI software.

    If you Just download the Driver package you Still Get the CATALYST INSTALL MANAGER,, SADLY this Program HAS the dreaded ATIKMDAG.SYS in it.

    However, once you download and install this package you can Isolate the GRAPHICS DRIVER. Here is how.

    Find the ATI folder on your HARD DRIVE once inside the ATI FOLDER locate the LH6A_INF folder HIGHLIGHT THIS FOLDER AND DRAG IT TO THE DESK TOP.

    UNINSTALL THE ATI PROGRAMS via the PROGRAMS AND FEATURES area in VISTA ( Add and Remove Programs in XP )

    Once you Reboot Go to the Device Manager and RIGHT CLICK the STANDARD VGA ADAPTER , then click on UPDATE DRIVER , CHOOSE INSTALL FROM SPECIFIC LOCATION , HIT BROWSE, DESKTOP and CHOOSE the LH6A_INF file and hit continue, Windows will take it from there.

    2 NOTES-- If you try and seperate the Inf File and then use the Installer package inside it will tell you "NEEDS CATALYST INSTALL MANGER INSTALLATION WILL NOW EXIT" . However WINDOWS can use the LH6A_INF to install the DRIVER ..

    Second note this will still leave the ATI Files in your computer. They should not be an issue as you will have gone AROUND them. However if you wnat to be sure there is a way to eliminate them . I will explain but first i will POST THIS WARNING " DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS UNLESS YOU ARE BOTH KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT COMPUTERS AND COMFORTABLE WITH THE PROCEDURE" THIS IS WHAT I DID TO RID THE SYSTEMS COMPLETELY OF ALL TRACES OF -- ATIKMDAG.SYS

    TO COMPLETELY PURGE THE ATI FILES THAT CONTAIN THE --ATIKMDAG.SYS
    Firstly Open the HARD DRIVE Click on program Files and DELETE the ATI Folders ( you may have to delete the contents first the the folders ) ,, Next and the TRICKY PART Use the Run Command to run REGEDIT once there click on HKEY_CURRENT_USER locate SOFTWARE and expand it DELETE BOTH ATI and ATI TECHNOLOGIES . Next Click open HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE locate SOFTWARE expand it and DELETE BOTH ATI and ATI TECHNOLOGIES.

    Close Regedit.

    Final Note to the Really Astute Folks here The LH6A_INF folder you saved DOES have an Instance of ATIKMDAG.SYS in it . HOWEVER ther are 2 things about it you should Know First removeing this Instance of ATIKMDAG.SYS will do 2 things Firstly it will Prevent WINDOWS from Using this file to install the Driver and Secondly it will Destabilize your Computer. This instance of ATIKMDAG.SYS is not used but is somehow Intagral to the Driver Package.

    To Cut out the Multiple steps at a later date in the event you must Reformat your Rig I strongly suggest backing the LH6A_INF folder to a CD, FLASH KEY or an USB outboard Hard Drive.
     
  6. CATALYSTCATCHER

    CATALYSTCATCHER ATI Guru

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    I will need to think about this more to figure out what I missed, but the file you are deleting is the main display driver component. Think, A-T-I-Kernel-Mode-Driver when you mention ATIKMDAG. If you are deleting this file then there is no point installing the driver in the first place. What I don't get is why you are still running at all. Of course if you delete ATIKMD.......You will not get a message from windows saying it has been restarted.

    I am confused by what you are suggesting. But, it's early. :)

    [UPDATE] In your previous linked thread you blame ATI CCC for the situation. Now you are telling people to delete the main graphics driver file.

    Please show us an MSINFO report or any report that will demonstrate exactly what drivers you are actually running after performing your procedure.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2008
  7. SypherNL

    SypherNL New Member

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    At first, when you suggested it was CCC it sounded plausible.
    But now you are messing with the driver. Yes, the error messages states its the "atikmdag.sys", but I guess most videocard related errors will contain that name.

    When you remove ATI's driver, Vista will revert back to the Microsoft WDDM driver (which is older then the 8.3 DD).

    People have reported that the normal, WDDM, drivers seem to be working.

    FYI: 2 days ago i've removed CCC from my pc, without rebooting it. Well, it gave me a TDR, but that was because.. I didn't reboot :p

    Now, 26 hours later I've used the second output AND I still have it enabled under Windows (normally I disable it after use, so I can work without TDR), to see if it indeed is CCC.

    Well, 26 hours... not a single problem. I am really hoping it *is* something related to CCC, but going back to Microsoft's WDDM driver is like going back to the past... I guess the ATi Original drivers are better performing.

    Anyhow, 26 hours and counting. I'm not getting my hopes up but I really hope this does fix it.

    axmt, can you verify what Windows' is saying about your graphic card? If you are running on the WDDM drivers you should see that in Hardware.
     
  8. CATALYSTCATCHER

    CATALYSTCATCHER ATI Guru

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    It was the thought that CCC might be involved in some way that grabbed my interest also. Essentially I have focused on the actual display driver because that is what is agressively being used. At least while running games or doing something that needs video acceleration (HD playback).

    And yes the bundled Vista driver for ATI product only provides basic functionality a few steps up from VGA only support, where as the latest Catalyst will be pressing all the hardware capabilites in the asic to the max.

    Now I would like to see a few other long term TDR sufferers who can remove CCC and be TDR free for a week. A day is promising, but by no means conclusive as the TDRs for many seem to take some time off occasionaly, only to return when least expected.
     
  9. SypherNL

    SypherNL New Member

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    Well yeah, its a whole new angle...

    Normally problems occurred here at least once a week (since 8.3 twice/week), but I had crash-free weeks (even a crash-free month!), a while back though...

    I know a day's not much, but when I tried to use a normal monitor instead of my TV via HDMI (a few weeks back), the record was... 4 hours without problems. And because I normally disable the secondary display when I am finished using it, and I didn't do that now (Had to resist the urge to do so..hehe) Ah well, I'll keep you informed.

    By the by.. Do you know "Jay N."? :p
     
  10. CATALYSTCATCHER

    CATALYSTCATCHER ATI Guru

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    Not personally, but I may have crossed paths a few times.
     
  11. axmt

    axmt New Member

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    CATALYSTCATCHER,

    After Performing The EXACT procedure that I described, My System Works Beautifully No hangs whatsoever. When I look at the DISPLAY ADAPTER in the DEVICE MANAGER and open THE DRIVER Tab It Tells me

    ATI RADEON HD 3800 Series
    Driver provider ATI Technologies
    Driver Date 2/25/2008
    Driver Version 8.471.0.0
    Digital Signature microsfot windows hardware compatibility publisher

    Under Driver file Details it shows

    C:\Windows\atiogl.xml
    \system32\amdpcom64.dll
    \Ati2evxx.dll
    \Ati2evxx.exe
    \ATIDEMGX.dll
    \atidxx64.dll
    \atiedu64.dll
    \aticdxx.dat
    \atio6axx.dll
    \ATIODCLI.exe
    \ATIODE.exe
    \atipdl64.dll
    \atitmm64.dll
    \atiumd64.dll
    \atiumd6a.dat
    \atiumd6a.dll
    \DRIVERS\ati2erec.dll
    \atikmdag.sys
    \ativcaxx.cpa
    \ativcaxx.vp
    \ativdkxx.vp
    \ativokxx.vp
    \ativpkxx.vp
    \ativvkxx.vp
    C:\Windows\SysWOW64\amdpcom.32dll
    \ati2edxx.dll
    \atidxx32.dll
    \atioglxx.dll
    \atipdlxx.dll
    \atiumdag.dll
    \atiumdva.dat
    \atiumdva.dll
    \Oemdspif.dll
    Provider unknown
    File Version Unknown
    copyright Unknown
    Digital Singer Microsoft Hardware Compatibility

    Now YES I notice that ATIKMDAG.SYS is in that list, HOWEVER
    1 ) There are NO ATI Registry Keys In My Computer ( I Deleted them all )
    2 ) The File I Refferenced in My Previous Post ( LH6A_INF ) has been saved to a CD-ROM and thusly has been DELETED from My Computer.
    3 ) WINDOWS Installed the Driver using the Procedure I described in My Previous Post and as such is going around the ATIKMDAG.SYS file as near as I can tell.

    Now I DON'T know EXACTLY why this works, But it does. From Prior experience with a Now Obsolete Version of The CATALYST ( Way back When AGP was all the rage and PCI-X was an Infant ) that this problem has occured before. ATI blamed Microsoft and Microsoft Blamed ATI.
    We can't Change the Microsoft OS , so the only thing to do is figure out why the CATALYST is colliding with the OS.
    Now seeing that this Issue is occuring in BOTH XP and VISTA and is Equally Afflicting BOTH users of the 32 Bit Version and the 64 bit Version of the Respectful OS's. This then appears to be a Strange Encoding Error.
    For some reason The ATIKMDAG.SYS does not play well with the OS when it is ALLOWED to be in Control, But seems to be fine when it is Subordinate to the OS.
    This may be an Error in how the ICQ's are handled by the CATALYST in regaurd to the OS's Native Instruction Code ,it might be More complex than that.

    What my Systems Engineer and I wer not able to do was Isolate the exact line of code that causes this error. We were only able to Deduce that When the Catalyst Was allowed to be in control that the Problem Occured consistantly and with the procedure we used ( that I described ) the Error is NON existant as of the time I write this. But then I will state that the System has Only been LIVE for One Week since we reformatted and performed the Described Procedure. HOWEVER again I should state that we Spent 3 Weeks trying Every Conceiveable Configuration on 4 Different Computers ( 2 Vista ( 1 32bit and 1 64bit ) and 2 XP ( 1 32 bit and 1 64bit ) we have applied the Described procedure to all 4 Computers and there have been no Reoccurances on ANY of them in the last Week and they have all been allowed to run CONSTANTLY. We Even went to the Extent of Running 3D MARK 06 on all 4 machine REPEATEDLY for the First 24Hrs of UPTIME. ( not reccommended anywhere that I can Find ) as this program Stresses ANY Computer to it's Limit. Even this torture testing Did not reproduce the error in the Configuration I Described.

    The Setup on the Computer I write this on is

    MOBO - INTEL X38BT
    CPU - INTEL QX6850 Quad Core 3GHz
    RAM - 8GB ( 4 x 2GB ) OCZ TECHNOLOGIES DDR3 1333MHz ( 8-8-8-24 )
    GRAPHICS - ATI RADEON 3870 512mb VIPER EDITON ( single PCI-X )
    SOUND - X-FI FATALITY EDITON
    STORAGE - 2 WD 500GB ENTERPRISE EDITION Hard Drives W/RAFF
    CHASSIS - Thermaltake ARMOR LCS
    Water Cooling - CPU, NORTHBRIDGE and Graphics.
    Nominal GRAPHICS TEMP IDLE - 93.5 F UNDER LOAD 102.6 F

    BTW - As for the Assertion that running DUAL monitors In an EXTENDED DESKTOP arrangement is the Culprit,, I had the Error Running only ONE Monitor. And as for the Ram being an issue We tried running with just one Gig ( 1 Stick ) on one of my DDR2 machines the Error Still Occured.

    My Systems Engineer ahs been in the Game for 20 yaers and I have personally been Pushing the BLEEDING EDGE for the Past Decade and we have both seen Errors like this before. It has been Our experience that these errors are a Matter of Software Encoding. They usually correct themselves in 2 or 3 Generations of a particular Driver ( due to the fact the encoding changes from Generation to Generation ) And Usually are Based off of one Software Colliding with antoher Peice of Software.

    This one however APPEARS ( I am not Blaming anyone ) to be How the Software relates to the SPECIFIC hardware. And This Does happen ( Very Rarely ) .When it does it usually is due to a slight vairance in The manufacturing process ( QC is great but it can't catch everything ).

    If anyone here Remembers MATROX Graphics Cards you might remember that they had a similar Problem with the 64mb AGP Cards that were produced back when we still were using WIN 95. It was corrected ONLY when they released the Next Generation Card as they could not Nail down how to Fix the Software Issue.

    ATI has Proven that they can Fix the Software Issues as the Problem has Occured before and while Not WIDLY a problem was Corrected with an Updated Catalyst.

    What is Interesting About this Problem THIS TIME is that 1 ) It is widespread and 2 ) NVIDIA ( the Competition ) seems to be having the same Issue with their new Cards.

    But Then an Interesting thought Is brought to Mind -- There is a Mix of BOTH GDDR 3 and GDDR 4 Graphics Cards Bing produced as of Currently. Not just one or the other. So While the transition from the OLD standard of GDDR 3 to GDDR 4 is underway there are bound to be hang ups in How The Software ( Generally written of a WIDE range of Cards ) is Handled by the SPECIFIC CARD you have.

    To Help The ATI STAFF I would ask that Those who Post or have Posted Please REPOST and state SPECIFICALLY whether your Card has GDDR 3 or GDDR 4 for it's MEMORY Standard.
    In this way they will be able to see Which Cards seem to be more affected the GDDR 3 Cards or the GDDR 4 Cards.

    I hope This helps you CATALYSTCATCHER.

    Mr. D - CEO/Manager
    Serenity Development and Rentals, LLC.
     
  12. axmt

    axmt New Member

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    Oh one more thought The WDDM driver ( at least my experience ) ONLY FINDS ONE DVI OUTPUT and Thusly ONE MONITOR. It reads the Card as STANDARD VGA ADAPTER. Hence the reason to Right Click on it in the DEVICE MANAGER then Click PROPERTIES then UPDATE DRIVER then INSTALL FROM SPECIFIC LOCATION and BROWSE Locating the LH6A_INF file that I saved to the DESKTOP and then Clicking OK. Windows then Takes over and installs the ATI DRIVER while MAINTAINING CONTROL over how the DRIVER Propagates.

    In this Configuration I am Having no Problems Running Games Like COD4 On the Highest Settings or Playing DVDs In FULL SCREEN MODE. Streaming Video is also not an issue.

    The Described Procedure is The ONLY way to install the Driver WITHOUT having to Have The CATALYST INSTALL MANAGER or The CATALYST CONTROL PANEL, that My Systems Engineer and I have Found.

    If You Seperate the LH6A_INF file from the ATI FOLDER created By the DRIVER DOWNLOAD on ATI's Site and then Uninstall the ATI PROGRAMS from Your Computer ( To get rid of the CATALYST INSTALL MANAGER or The CATALYST CONTROL PANEL whichever you installed ) and try to use the WINDOWS INSTALLER PACKAGE in the LH6A_INF File to install the Driver it tells you "NEEDS THE CATALYST INSTALL MANAGER INSTALLATION WILL NOW EXIT"

    However WINDOWS can istall the Driver from this file IF you Tell WINDOWS where to Look.

    The Procedure is COMPLICATED, Time Consuming and a General PAIN in the BUTT, However It Does Work.

    If you Doubt My Findings , I say try the procedure EXACTLY as I Described and Judge the Result for Yourself.

    **NOTE** I deleted the Registry Keys for ATI and ATI TECHNOLOGIES from the refferenced Registry Locations BEFORE I TOLD WINDOWS to UPDATE The Driver From the LH6A_INF File.

    Upon Reinspection Of the Refferenced REGISTRY KEY LOCATIONS it Appeares as though WINDOWS has RECREATED A REGISTRY LOCATION CALLED ATI TECHNOLOGIES In Both Refferenced Locations.

    Under HKEY_CURRENT_USER\SOFTWARE it shows

    ATI TECHNOLOGIES\DeviceEProfile\Connected\DFP0x9160x22050-DFP20x70240x7e30-

    and

    \DeviceProfile\Selected\DFP0x9160x22050-DFP20x70240x7e30

    Under the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE it Shows

    ATI TECHNOLOGIES\CBT
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2008
  13. gwhiz2k

    gwhiz2k New Member

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    Is the above procedure the only way to run without CCC? What about completely removing ATI drivers, going back to the Windows driver, then only installing the driver without CCC? Wouldn't that work?

    I'm disabling CCC in the task manager for a while to see what happens.
     
  14. CATALYSTCATCHER

    CATALYSTCATCHER ATI Guru

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    Our driver packages have always been in a format that Windows can use to install them. Starting from device manager. and finding an inf file in the right directory. Most people on these and many forums are well aware of the approach.

    I still don't understand what you deleted, but it would appear that windows managed to restore it and possibly from a previous driver cache.

    The main driver in XP has a different name so unless I missed that point I don't understand how your procedure had any effect in XP.

    I would try the procedure myself, but I don't experience TDRs and can't magically create them therefore the procedure would not prove anything. BTW: we don't have any systems that will TDR on command unless you overclock to the point of failure. Even then the resulting TDRs are not predictable.

    I still don't know what you mean by encoding unless maybe you are refering to some kind of compatibility problem. And yes those do and always have occured but usually in a 1,2,3 predictable manner.

    Anyway, your serious response has prompted me to re-read your earlier posts to see what I missed. But tomorrow, with a fresh perspective.

    I should also mention that many others with even older products also experience TDR events. I don't think the memory type has anything to do with this.

    Thanks for reponding.

    CC
     
  15. axmt

    axmt New Member

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    CATALYSTCATCHER,

    I only Described the Procedure we used for the Vista Machines The one for XP is nearly Identical, However as you pointed out There are fundimental Differences Between the 2 OS's.
    But the Point here is not to Gaft back and forth as to who is knows more or less. The Idea ( I thought is to try and find the Root of the Problem ) . This is why I posted with the Detail I did And why I linked the Official Vista thread here ( Yes I authored that one also ).

    However, I appreciate the enlightenment to the fact that users who have much Older graphics Cards are experiencing the same issue. This then Does Point to a Software issue and not Hardware For the Most part ( there could be some Failed or Failing graphics Cards that see the error ).

    Also, I need to report that After 1 Solid week of not seeing the Issue My Computer ( The One Described ) has Had a Video Related System Freeze.
    i did not get the AITKMDAG.SYS Error, rather the Computer just froze the screen Showed Lines horizontally and I had to HARD REBOOT. It Did Generate an Error report however that is as Follows --

    Description
    A problem with your video hardware caused Windows to stop working correctly.
    Problem signature
    Problem Event Name: LiveKernelEvent
    OS Version: 6.0.6001.2.1.0.256.1
    Locale ID: 1033
    Files that help describe the problem (some files may no longer be available)
    WD-20080326-2341-02.dmp
    sysdata.xml
    Version.txt
    Extra information about the problem
    BCCode: 117
    BCP1: FFFFFA80086584E0
    BCP2: FFFFFA600242748C
    BCP3: 0000000000000000
    BCP4: 0000000000000000
    OS Version: 6_0_6001
    Service Pack: 1_0
    Product: 256_1
    Server information: 8696389b-bc3f-40f2-b87c-b652aae32168

    Now Unfortunately the Files

    WD-20080326-2341-02.dmp
    sysdata.xml
    Version.txt

    Do Not Seem to exist in My Computer anymore Since I Sent the 5 ( Yes 5 ) Error reports to Microsoft. The Solution they Provided was to Check WINDOWS UPDATE for an Updated Driver and If there was none to Check ATI's Website For an Updated Driver.

    However, There are 2 things about this Firstly there is no newer Driver as of Yet and Secondly None of the ATI Graphics Cards I have are supported By an Earlier Driver.

    Sadly I thought I had this Licked, but it seems I am Back at square one here. I hope the Error Report Info. Does Help You Fine Folks At ATI figure out what is going on, as I do not think it is My Brand new HD 3800 Card itself and as such am Not ready to Do an RMA.

    On the Bright Side However It Does Seem That it is a Problem With the DRIVER itself ( As I ONLY have the Driver in the Computer ), but what and why I could not even Begin to tell You or at this Point Speculate.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2008
  16. CATALYSTCATCHER

    CATALYSTCATCHER ATI Guru

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    I agree that the point it to find the root problem, but after looking at all your comments again I can see that you have made some serriously bad assumptions.

    1) We have provided driver only downloads for a very long time. Prior to Vista, and prior to the CCC app. So , assuming we know about TDRs because we have an independant driver download is completely false.

    2a) atikmdag.xxx is not part of CCC it is the main display driver and you will find it in the subdirectory below the LH64 in compressed form. i.e "atikmdag.sy_"
    2b) The MSI file in the LH64 directory is definately used by the install manager and is not required to do the INF style install. It is not a standalone installer package. BTW: I should mention that the INF install method has existed since windows 3.0 days long before any msi files.

    3) You are not deleting atikmdag.sys from the system, because you have installed the driver before you actualy suggest removing this file. If you doubt me simply look in <Your SYSTEM DRIVE:>\Windows\System32\drivers.

    4) Sure, the display driver is in the middle of this mess but you must take a realistic look at the MS messaging. The TDR (restarted driver) message is not an error message. It is a progress message from windows telling you that a problem has occured and that the driver has been restarted. (The alternative is a hung system, or spontaneous OS restart which is less helpfull and takes a lot longer but just as annoying) The message gives no indication as to what the problem was. Sending reports to MS for review is the best course of action.

    However you are saying the driver is at fault which is a completely unproven assumption. And how do you explain that there are many more people using the same driver who do not have a TDR problem? What is different about their systems?

    In any case, you claim to have the same or similar issues in XP yet I see no reports of any errors that occur or any other reasonably detailed description of what is going wrong.

    The fact that you seem to get regular TDRs in Vista 32 and 64 as well as some kind of catostrophic but similar problem in XP32 and 64 leads me to believe that the problems are at your end. And please don't take that as an insult, I am simply suggesting that there is something different about your hardware or software configurations that is specific to you or perhaps the tech dude you have been referencing. The problem is to figure out what that difference is.

    We do agree on your final point, TDRs in Vista are occuring for some reason that nobody has yet been able to put a finger on. Nor is there and solid place to start looking.

    I appreciate the input.

    Thanks

    CC
     
  17. SypherNL

    SypherNL New Member

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    Great... I reached 48 hours and I was happy.

    But..... 50 hours and ... BAM, TDR!

    So, I don't think its CCC's fault.

    It happened after I left for ~ 30 minutes, came back.
    The screensaver (normal Windows one) ended and a short while after that I've got the TDR
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2008
  18. axmt

    axmt New Member

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    I have not Posted detailed Information about the 2 XP machines Nor the 32 Bit Vista machine as they are Machines that I personally Don't use UNLESS I have absolutly no choice.

    They are used By Others around My office but not as Main machines. All were upgraded at the same time as I got a Good Deal on the Technical Labor.

    I personally use the refferenced machine as My Primary machine. ( Well Not now as It went DOA )

    I am at this time using an Older AMD BASED HP laptop Due to all the Problems and to the fact My main Computer went DOA.

    As to My SETUP, INTEL it seems may be aware of something as they released a New BIOS on the 18th march this Year ( I just Found out ). Sadly the Process of Flashing the BIOS Killed the Machine.

    After having the Board Check it has Been Declared DEAD by Intel and is pending RMA. The Graphics Card also seems to be dead as we have tried it in Several other machines and it Does not work any more. And the Final Insult here is that $ 1,000.00 worth of OCZ DDR3 1333MHz memory is also Fried.

    Automatic assumtion ( here I am guessing ) will be Either a bad Power Pack or a Powersurge. On Both Points I will say this the Powerpack has been tested with NO ERRORS or PROBLEMS Indicated. And as for a Powersurge the Computer was Protected behind an enterprise grade Surge System and Run through an Enterprise Grade battery back Up. The kind that requires a Special Plug not the standard HOME 120v Plug. Nither the Surge System nor the Battery back Up system show any anomolous events.

    So while I may have in everyone Opinions made Erronous Assumptions about everything and it appears that I am looked at as though I am 52 cards sgort of a full deck. I really don't care. I made the assumtions Based off of What I saw ,what the systems did and previous experiences like this.

    What I know is that all the Parts in all the Computers are well tested parts By well know Manufacturers. I personally consulted with EVERY Manufacturer BEFORE I prchased a SINGLE part. Those Manufacturers Are INTEL ( CPU's and MOBO's ) ATI ( Graphics ) NZXT ( Power Supplies ) CREATIVE ( Sound and Web Cams ) OCZ ( Ram ) Thermaltake ( Cases and Watercooling Solutions ) LGE ( Optical Drives ) WESTERN DIGITAL ( Hard Drives ) .

    As to My Systems Engineer ( Tech Dude as refferenced ) He is one of the Top Professionals in My Area for Custom Computing Solutions and Is Highly trained for what he does. He is also Higly Knowledgable as to Software Conflicts and resolutions.

    I however am not suprised that the blame is Placed on Me the END USER. Any time there is a Problem that is "Phantom" and it causes Major issues that is the old standby. And I understand this well as a Real Estate Developer and a Landlord it is the only thing you can fall back to When Something breaks that Shouldn't,, blame the person who Used it.

    So the tally for me at this time is 4 Custom Computers each with an Average cost of $ 5,500.00 and not a one worth more than a Cheap $ 2.00 Tourist Trinket.

    One last thought, As to the ASSUMTION that Myself Or My Systems Engineer Screwed Up the Hardware -- WE FOLLOWED THE TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS AS TO HOW TO INSTALL AND DEPLOY EVERY PART TO THE LETTER. When and If there was a Question ( IE: The Memory in an 8GB arrangement ) We CONTACTED the MANUFACTURER DIRECTLY AND FOLLOWED THE INSTUCTIONS THEY PROVIDED WHILE THEY WER ON THE PHONE..

    As For The ASSUMTION that we somehow Screwed up the Software ,, We follwed Standard prcedure In the Deployment of ALL the Software and ONLY used Known workaround Solutions,, like unistalling the Software Purging the registry and USING A STANDAlONE INSTALLATION..

    Why I thought this Forum might provide a Solution I will never know..
     
  19. CATALYSTCATCHER

    CATALYSTCATCHER ATI Guru

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    That's not what I said! It is very common that systems in an organization will be configured in a simiilar manner. For example they all will run the same virus scanner or other app that is unique to their business. This does not imply that anyone messed up in any way. Only that there is something different about the setup. We must look at those possibilites as a contributing factor.
     
  20. axmt

    axmt New Member

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    That was A consideration that we took into account. However, WITH ONLY the OS in the Computer (s) we Still got the Problem. Well the OS,Board Drivers, VIDEO DRIVER and FLASH ( Windows Update needs it ).

    You have Stated that a WIDE Range of Folks are having this Problem. You have Stated that it is happening over Multiple Generations of ATI Graphics cards. It Appears by the Posts that this is Affecting Folks over Multiple DIFFERENT MOBO's. it also appears by the Posts that this is affecting folks who are using an amount of Ram from the Min 256mb to (in my case ) 8GB. It appears from the Posts to be affecting Folks No matter the Manufacturer of the RAM.

    If it helps you at all the 2 Vista machines I have use

    DX38BT for the VISTA ULTIMATE x64 Comp.
    D975XBX2 For the VISTA ULTIMATE x 32 Comp.

    And the XP Machines Use the

    DP35DP For The WIN XP x64 Comp.
    DG965WH For the WIN XP x32 Comp.

    All are Intel Boards NONE are Overclocked In Fact they all Carry the factory Standard Settings as Does all the Hardware that still works.For Me Bieng out on the EDGE is great But I See no Need to Push beyond that razor thin ledge set by the manufacturer as all that does is cause problems and damage hardware.

    * Note we have several other machines as I stated those use Enterprise grade graphics a Mix of High end FIREGL products and QUADDRO products. These machines run a Mix of 64bit OS's & 32bit OS's These machines DO NOT / Have not experienced any Graphics related incidents.*

    Now further Web based searching has shown me that this problem seems to have first cropped up in ernest in late 2006 early 2007. And has been afflicting both 32bit and 64 bit users ( a little more weighted towards 64 bit users ) I could not find many reports of this Before that for anyone and most of those reports didn't specific the OS as to x64 or x32 .

    Now seeing that there are folks who are using x64 VISTA and x64 XP, as well as x32 VISTA and x32 VISTA With BOTH Newer and Older ATI and NVIDIA ( competition ) With no issues. You have to Wonder then What is the Problem HARDWARE or SOFTWARE ?

    Now as I am Both extremly Irrate and Curious due to this issue I pulled out an OLDER Computer I have not used in a long time about a week ago and wentthrough the process of formatting it and reinstalling Just the Core Components , Board drivers OS, OS' Updates and Installing the Latest Graphics Driver.. This Computer uses an ATI 9800 PRO 512MB on an INTEL 955XBK Mobo and WIN XP x64. Interestingly this Computer hasn't seen the Issue even with the New 8.3 Catalyst for WIN XP x64. And yes I did a FULL install of the CCC and DRIVER.

    I was thinking this might all have something to do with the New PCI-X 2.0 Standard but then I thought about what you said about USERS WITH OLDER HARDWARE. So that seems to have been ruled out..

    What I wish was that There was a Quantifed Number out there for all of us to see. IE: 3 out of 10 users or 1 out of 100 Cards or even out of 100,000 Units registerd in X month X number have had this issue.

    This might then Give some real direction to this issue. Users that have Older Cards might be experiencing the Issue due to the Cards nearing the End Of their expected Service lifespan and New Cards Might Fall into the "We can't Catch everything" category.

    Then again it could be Software.

    For My answer i will have to wait until My Brand new HD3870 512MB Viper Editon arrives ( another $300.00 ) So I can then try this card in All the Computers that Can Run it BEFORE I put it Back in the Big Computer once all the RMA's Arrive.

    I will run a Test Setup for a few days on Each of the 3 other computers ( Board Drivers , OS. OS Updates and Of Course Flash ) to see if the Problem reoccurs. And will Post the Findings here For what ever Use they may be.

    And CATALYSTCATCHER, My apologies ,however please Understand that This issue and the resulting Headachces it has been causing coupled with Tax Season and the Loss of a $ 5,500 + Dollar Custom Level 5 Desktop has me Past Frazzled.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2008

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