Vista and 7.3 Display driver atikmdag stopped responding error

Discussion in 'AMD Graphics Cards' started by the-bullet, Mar 29, 2007.

  1. Biffes

    Biffes New Member

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    good idea, mrps2man

    I submited my data. btw: you should add a tab for using extended desktop. it is a tdr-factor, too.
     
  2. Alcoholicdream

    Alcoholicdream New Member

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    Wait now the solution is that my motherboard isn't compatable with windows vista? I've had this problem on XP too.

    Please make sure that the motherboard you are using is listed on Microsoft's Vista Hardware Compatibility List at the following location.
    https://winqual.microsoft.com/hcl/ (requires Internet Explorer 6 or higher)
    Officially supported motherboards can be found by setting the first dropdown menu to "systems" and then the second drop down menu to "motherboards" or by clicking on "motherboards" under "systems" on the left hand side menu. Only those motherboards that are on the official Microsoft Windows Vista HCL are supported by AMD.

    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] EVGA nVidia 650i Ultra Socket 775 motherboard
    [/FONT]



    If this is true I'm very disappointed.
     
  3. FacialTurd

    FacialTurd New Member

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    I May have just found something, i was running RivaTuner in the Background, monitoring my Temps, when the driver stopped responding, Just before that the Core Clock speed shot up by about 200MHz
     
  4. mrps2man

    mrps2man New Member

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    I've taken some community suggestions and added a field to select how many monitors are present on the system (I knew I had forgotten something!!!)

    As per another suggestion, I also added the Mobility chips as graphics card choices, as some Mobility users are seeing this issue as well.

    I'm sorry to say that any users who have already entered data, at the moment you will have to re-enter all of the data if you want to indicate the number of monitors you have. If you choose to do so, then please leave a comment indicating that you have already entered data so I can remove the previous result so as to not influence accuracy. Again, I'm sorry, but I didn't log IPs or request any username, so I can't think of any good ways of handling that at the moment... I'm still totally new to this...

    Additionally, I am in fact working on the data presentation page. I'm expecting to have that ready early this week (Monday or Tuesday). I want to be able to sort data columns automatically to be able to more easily identify trends.

    Right now I've got 13 data points (many thanks to those who have submitted their system specs!), but hopefully we will be able to pick up some more soon. I'm sure there are more than 13 people experiencing this error, so spread the word! There are relatively interesting trends thus far, but 13 points is hardly conclusive.

    @FacialTurd (lol?), while it is interesting, the way the drivers work is to have predefined profiles in the card BIOS, so I find it hard to believe that the card is clocking up by 200MHz. I'm pretty sure that it would not be able to recover from that if there was an immediate jump by 200MHz past nominal. With that said, though, I would not totally discount this as a strange report from the crashed driver, there may be a clue hidden in the behavior, you never know!

    Again, thanks for all community submissions, and submit, submit, submit!!! ;)

    EDIT: Added monitor connection and resolution info as values as a result of another suggestion. The CCC theme has been removed for the time being, but I expect to have it back shortly. If there are any other fields that anybody things may be relevant, don't hesitate to tell me! Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2008
  5. FacialTurd

    FacialTurd New Member

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    Right, well, I'm keeping The hardware Monitor running in the Background, i'll see if i get the same results again. also, it was only a Spike, it didn't stay above normal for more than 100ms
     
  6. SypherNL

    SypherNL New Member

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    I've had 1 1/2 week without problems. I even had my second monitor enabled all the time.

    Until yesterday when it all came down again.

    I've submitted my data to the TDR database thingy, you'll never know :)
    mrps2man, you might want to post this link to the ATi forums & Microsoft forums.
     
  7. Ekard

    Ekard New Member

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    Well I'm getting ready to RMA my card in a couple days. I shrink my main drive and made some partitions and installed xp pro corporate. The bug doesn't crash in xp for me I get lots of video corruption and a freeze up instead that force me to reboot. I might try running a new pcie power line from my psu and test it again in vista but I doubt it solves the problem. This is starting to look like a hardware design flaw in all the new cards. My x700 is in now I works just fine in xp and vista and its got two years of wear and tear from being an emachines's slave nonstop. My question to ati is who desgined these cards?
     
  8. LukeK

    LukeK New Member

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    Did you try flashing the card so the 2d clocks were the same as the 3dclocks. Apparently a lot of people are solving the problem as there appears to be some issue when the card changes clocks speeds.
     
  9. HardwareHeaven

    HardwareHeaven Administrator Staff Member

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    Corey that is a great idea. I have made a sticky for you so it might be easier to maintain this database over Here
     
  10. SilverDev

    SilverDev New Member

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    Haven't gotten the problem in a couple days

    Heck, that's good for me.

    Installing Folding@Home (FAH) seems to have "resolved" the problem for me. As I understand it, it basically means that the card is always working , so there's never a rapid change from low work levels to high work levels. The driver doesn't have to reallocate memory or change the fan speed.

    BTW, I tried SpeedFan & RivaTuner on my box without any luck. They couldn't access the fan. I think it's this Asus F8. I even bought one of those usb fan cooler flattops to set the laptop on to try and keep the temperature under control, but both cores still run around 60C at best. More, if I'm pushing it.

    This is my work laptop and I'm not trying to play any games on this machine. When combined with Eclipse and the JBoss server and all the standard MS Office suite running on my box, I don't really notice any performance difference when working and running FAH. I also have about 2GB of RAM. Any slight performance loss is worth the stability. I'm also not running FAH at its maximum capability, running it at about half or a little less.

    I had been consistently getting the crash if I locked the computer without turning off the second monitor first (and sometimes even if I did turn it off). Now it doesn't seem to matter, just keeps on plugging.

    Heh, we should create our own team for the Folding ap. 'And all these Work Units completed thanks to graphics card frustrations...' :lol:

    Oh, and kudos and thanks out to mrps2man for the database!
    Looking forward to seeing the data!

    Peace!

    SilverDev
    -=-
     
  11. Rayline TWB

    Rayline TWB New Member

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    Hmmmmm......looks like I have to try the FAH trick on my HD2900PRO then - just to see if that makes the trick for me too....:)
     
  12. Biffes

    Biffes New Member

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    ok, stanford. you ll get 50% of my gpu-load. now cure cancer, dammit....

    btw: CATALYSTCATCHER, any updates?
     
  13. al_dh

    al_dh New Member

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    Glad to see that it seems some momentum is growing towards finding a solution. I appreciate Catalystcatcher's effort to help us out. I guess you post over at rage3d as well(didn't recall your name) but since it seems there
    isn't as much going on over there as here about this issue, I'll post over here.

    I've read most of the postings here for the past few months, so I'm somewhat aware of what's already been mentioned, so I believe my info is new, if not forgive me. Hopefully my info will help! And it may be a little long, sorry!

    Here's my (semi)relevant specs on home built machine- everything at stock speeds and default settings.(No OC or special BIOS settings)
    Intel Q6600
    Gigabyte P35-DS3L
    2 GB(2X1GB) DDR2-800 Crucial Ballistix
    Sapphire HD2600XT
    2 LCDs- 1 DVI & 1 VGA

    I'll start from the beginning and move towards now. I first got Vista last summer and was running Vista in the Vista Basic color sceme instead of Aero for a few specific reasons. During the few months I was running in basic mode, I don't recall ever having the TDR error. Finally I switched to Aero for those reasons and soon had the problem- I've had just the one-time popups and the hard locks. I tried different Catalyst versions and nothing helped. Did some searching about the problem but never tried any of the possible fixes mentioned. Now my rate of error was rather low compared to others- usually it would happen around once a day, maybe a couple more times, but never a lot. I know some may say that I'm lucky to have it not be such a huge problem, but I rely on my computer for something that I would hate to lose to a dumb TDR crash. And it would happen doing various things, never always the same thing so it wasn't easily repeatable(and it has even happened when doing nothing, right after the computer booted), but the one area it never happened was gaming. I didn't have many full games to test with, but I had loaded plenty of demos, some older and some newer(Crysis, SupCom, Timeshift, COD4,etc) and I never had a crash while playing. So that's one difference I had with quite a few people with this problem. I figured I would just deal with the problem and hopefully it would be fixed with the next Cat's. I then remembered some time ago that when I was running the basic scheme, I didn't have the problem, at least as far as I could remember. I then checked some Vista logs and found the Event Viewer/Apps and Services Logs/Microsoft/Windows/Diagnostics-Performance log that had some interesting info. There were a whole bunch of 500/501 event ID's that mention problems with the desktop window manager. Looking online for those errors didn't/don't reveal much. The errors would happen roughly every hour. I then looked back in the log all the way to the beginning and saw that
    there were no such errors logged. I then realized that was when I was running in basic mode. So I switched to Basic mode for a full week, and never got a TDR error. I would have kept it going longer to really test it out, but another "wonderful" ATI piece of software(the Remote Wonder) messes up the cursor, so I sort of need to run Aero. So I guess this is my first part, but this Basic/Aero issue relates to the next part. (NOTE: I have read some say they disable Aero but they haven't been specific in what they mean, so if anyone has done this same thing-changing from Windows Aero to Windows Vista Basic in the Window Color and Appearance->Classic Appearance Properties please say so)

    Realizing that I had never had TDR errors when playing games, I was trying to think why I would never have the problem. I finally made the connection just a few weeks ago. Since I run 2 displays, I'm able to see what happens
    on the display not showing the game. I was noticing that the scheme was changing to basic, the same mode I had never had problems in. Coincidence? I'm not sure if all games change the scheme, as I can't recall if Vista will automatically do it for all games or if a game can prevent Vista from changing(I do know that a game/application can change the scheme if needed).
    So at least for me, it seems that it is some issue with Aero/3d Desktop/Desktop Window Manager- yes, the Desktop Window Manager(DWM.exe), which is what is mentioned in the error logs. Again searching for info about the DWM reveals very little. So I just did a test right now, and found out that the DWM is not needed in Basic mode(at least DWM exits, don't know if it will actually cause problems). I tried ending DWM with Aero, and it wouldn't exit, nothing would even popup or anything. Then changing to basic scheme, and ending the DWM worked. I then tried to switch back to Aero, but it disappears from the list of schemes(not themes). I have to stop the Desktop Window Manager Session Manager service(UxSms) and start it again and DWM will load, then I can change the scheme back to Aero. When changing from Aero to Basic, memory usage of DWM.exe went down a lot, but I don't know if that means DWM is still "needed" for the basic scheme.

    Now onto part three I suppose- I've tried the no CCC fix by just ending it after it has loaded(I actually need CCC for video options as they don't get applied properly without CCC loading first) and it seems to have slowed down my rate of error. I haven't averaged one per day since doing so, so thanks to those for finding out this "fix." I have had the error for sure though, so it doesn't work as well changing to the basic scheme.

    Whew- I think that's everything. I may have left some things out, and maybe got the order of some of my thinking wrong, but the main points are correct. So from yet another user- here's what I think I've found out, at least for me. There is a possible solution with changing Aero to the Basic scheme, which thus involves some interaction with the DWM, which thus seems to have problems as stated in the event logs. Is there a problem with the DWM?!? Or is there a problem with ATI's drivers dealing with the DWM?? And in turn Aero??

    I've also had thoughts about power issues with the video cards as some have brought up. Since the newer generations(2-3 years) of cards from both ATI and nvidia have started to have more power saving features, like changing clockspeeds, voltages, fan rpm, etc. I'm wondering if that's the main reason for problems. Maybe it's something rather simple that they are just overlooking, as Vista is just being real picky about something. And if CCC is needed for overclocking(using CCC's built-in tool), does that mean CCC plays a part in how the video card deals with power features? And that's possibly why not having CCC running helps some because the card is left to work by itself without interaction from CCC?

    Feel free to ask questions about anything, if you want more info about the things I've went through or help with anything. I hope I've been specific enough, if not let me know.

    Thanks for reading.
     
  14. Biffes

    Biffes New Member

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    interresting post, al_dh... the dwm.exe might be the key. i did some research weeks ago and found this one:

    Vista AERO-Oberfläche außer Funktion - Seite 2 - Forum - COMPUTER BILD

    (it is german- use babelfish)

    it is basically about activating aero on lower systems. maik_mona is writting some good stuff in there:
    -if aero is using more than 25% ram- vista suggests to turn aero of
    -if aero is using more than 30% ram- vista kills aero instantly
    -other triggers for killing aero: games, DUAL DISPLAYS, constant low framerates.

    first, i thougt this information quite boring- but- i found also this:

    dwm.exe leaking memory - TechNet Forums

    some dude is wondering about the amount of ram used by dwm...nothing special.... but maybe it triggers the event, too.

    now my theory/question:
    what if dwm.exe gets a shut-down trigger for about less then a sec (memory hole eats 31%, the radeon is checking for changes on 2nd monitor, a "small" gpu-crash caused by vista popup) and activates/reactivates aero in this time. maybe the reactivation of dwm.exe is too ram/anything heavy and the system is trapped in a trigger loop...

    just my 2c
     
  15. Rayline TWB

    Rayline TWB New Member

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    I shall certainly try switching off Aero just to see if that fixes my problems.

    I tried running the FAH GPU, but as we speak, 10, 20 and 30% workload in FAH does not help for my problems. I will however try higher percentages. I'll post the results duely.
     
  16. mrps2man

    mrps2man New Member

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    That's an interesting theory, Biffes, but personally, I've got 8GB of RAM, so Aero would need to consume over 2.4GB of memory on its own to cause a problem. Not only is that extremely unlikely, but I would have personally noticed it at some point with the task manager opened. It may be the cause in a select few cases, but I somehow doubt it.

    Rayline, just allow the GPU client to run full speed, it'll be easier to check the results ;-) Also make sure that the GPU is in fact loaded in CCC. I had problems early on with the client loading my GPU. Normally, on my Q6600, a Radeon HD 3870 runs ~65% load because the CPU can't feed data fast enough anyways. I am curious to see if your results mimic mine, though.
     
  17. Raduque

    Raduque New Member

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    I posted my info to the database. I moved from a nVidia card to get away from these errors (also, corruption). I've submitted two entries, mine are the two entries with the gigabyte p965-s3 mobo. The comment i submitted isn't showing, either.

    the comment stated that my TDR errors were severely reduced by disabling "PCI Express Link State Power Management" and "Adaptive Display". Both settings are in the Advanced Options in the Power Management options.
     
  18. mrps2man

    mrps2man New Member

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    Thanks for your submission, I am still working on the page. The reason I don't have the comments on there yet is simply because it messes up all the table heights. I'm going to add the comments to the database today once I figure out how.

    Again, thank you, and for future reference, we have a thread going discussing the database right here.

    --Corey
     
  19. Rayline TWB

    Rayline TWB New Member

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    Righty'o fellas !! - I have now gamed for 4 hours without any TDR.

    My solution so far was to turn off Aero and run FAH GPU at 35% workload.
    I will continue to post my experience as the evening approaches....:)

    EDIT: Well, after 7 hours of gaming I have had 1 single TDR - that's indeed a new record.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2008
  20. CBRacerX

    CBRacerX New Member

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    I have installed FAH GPU2 client and lets see how it goes...
     

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