Vista and 7.3 Display driver atikmdag stopped responding error

Discussion in 'AMD Graphics Cards' started by the-bullet, Mar 29, 2007.

  1. OldBuzzard

    OldBuzzard DH's oldest Geek

    Joined:
    May 25, 2003
    Messages:
    2,777
    Likes Received:
    145
    Trophy Points:
    88
    You said that you removed your vid card and are now using the onboard video.

    Onboard video uses part of your system RAM. You can look in the BIOS to see, and adjust, just how much RAM is dedicated to the onboard video.
     
  2. rychas

    rychas New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2008
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    8.12 still crash my system, with no dual monitor and no Aero.

    It mostly occurs while using OpenGL applications. I'm desperate :(
     
  3. SV110MHH

    SV110MHH New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2008
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Even though I STILL don't believe this is an overheating issue (most of my TDRs in EVE Online come from when I am messing with the right click menus.)

    Which 4850 do you suggest?
     
  4. evilid

    evilid New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2008
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I always recommend His IceQ version.
    HIS HD 4850 IceQ 4 512MB GDDR3 PCIe < HD 4800 Series < Desktop Graphics < Products | HIS Graphic Cards
    It has a huge copper base plate that covers RAMs and GPU.
    As far as I know, nothing beats His IceQ in terms of cooling.

    The price isn't bad either.
    Newegg.com - HIS Hightech H485QT512P Radeon HD 4850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported IceQ4 Turbo Video Card - Desktop Graphics / Video Cards

    If you're going to keep the origlnal cooler, this is the best IMHO.

    However, as I said, if you get a lemon where the cooler doesn't make proper contacts with the components, you are out of luck.
    You will get instability.
     
  5. Zaltys

    Zaltys New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2008
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Found the trigger for my TDRs - Dual monitors. Take the 2nd monitor off and I can enable Aero and be completely TDR free. My two monitors are dissimilar - 1) 1680x1050 2) 1024x768. Same refresh rate though.

    I find this interesting when considered in regard to this blog post (Putting perspective on the “30% of Vista crashes caused by nVIDIA” reports | Hardware 2.0 | ZDNet.com) I found from a guy at Ziff Davis, where he claims to provide debugging information to some people at Microsoft, and they tell him to use same size monitors and it was a "vertical sync issue":

    "Note: In case you’re wondering, here’s how we fixed the problematic systems … after talking to a few people at Microsoft (and handing them some debug information) we came to the conclusion that the problem came down to a vertical sync issue. Both systems ran dual screens and these screens were of a different size and running at different screen resolutions and so I took a stab at solving the problem by fitting identical monitors on the systems. It worked! Problem solved."

    He mentions in an earlier post (Serious ATI bug makes Vista virtually unusable for some | Hardware 2.0 | ZDNet.com) that his systems use ATI graphics cards, despite the title of his second post.

    I note also quite a few people in this thread have found that matching their two monitors (resolution & refresh rate) exactly fixed the issue for them.

    According to that blog post, atleast "a few people at Microsoft" know that a dissimilar dual monitor setup can trigger TDRs. I can't find it documented anywhere from Microsoft/ATI that I can't use dissimilar monitors. It almost makes me suspect that Microsoft is aware of the issue, but has judged it too rare a setup / too hard to fix. Anybody know anything about this particular "vertical sync issue" he mentions?

    Also, anybody know what the "enhancement" quoted below in Vista SP2 Beta actually is?? Sounds like marketing b/s for lots of bug fixes to me. :rolleyes:

    From (Notable Changes in Windows Server 2008 SP2 Beta and Windows Vista SP2 Beta):
    "Adds new capabilities to Direct X Graphic display reliability. The graphics experience has been greatly improved for users, such as gamers, running applications that require a lot of graphics processing."
     
  6. The_Azor

    The_Azor New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2008
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hey, I dnt know wht I did, but my TDR´s and BSOD´s are completely gone. and I mean COMPLETELY. I had problems for over 3 months with my sapphire HD4850. I had installed cat 8.11 before and didnt fix anything, but then I rolled back to 8.10 because it was more stable, even if it didn´t fix the problem. The thing is, I grew weary of all the fixes so I rolled any system changes I did and installed 8.11 again to show my part retailer what was happening so I could get a RMA. the thing is, after doing thet and actually trying to poke the PC into a TDR, I COULD NOT !!! COMPLETELY ERROR FREE !!! this is unbelievable, and leaves me with no answer at all as to what could have been the change that got rid of the errors.....completely clueless.

    I have one theory so far. Many people said the TDRs were generated by a bad relationship between display drivers and vista. maybe M$ fixed something through windws update (which I re-enabled when i rolled back all changes) and now the TDRs dont happen when 8.11 because it was a vista problem...is this possible?
     
  7. eisfeld

    eisfeld New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2006
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    As I had this problem for a long time I thought I have to share my experience with this error with you. Well, it first came up after I upgraded my card from a x1950 to a hd4870. I also upgraded from XP to Vista before and my x1950 had no problems. When I installed the hd4870 the error occured frequently (mostly about 5-10 seconds in games). So I switched back to XP and guess what, same error here.

    I tried all the fixes, bought a new mainboard and a new cpu but the error was still there. After my PSU got tested by a tech (everything ok) I decided to ask in a german tech forum, and a guy requested a system log generated by the freeware program SiSoftwareSandra Lite. I downloaded the program and ran various benchmark tests (all which have to do with Memory, CPU and Graphics Adapter). I restarted my computer afterwards and reset my bios settings to default (had done this before and it did not stop the error). When I decided to test various games one last time the error was gone, completely!

    Now I'm running my system for about 3 weeks without a single error. Well, till today... I decided to upgrade to Vista once again to experience dx10 effects. And the error is back. I once again ran the benchmark tests with SiSoftware Sandra Lite and I have reset my Bios settings and the error is gone again.

    I just don't know how fully stressing out my hardware (via the benchmark tests) and resetting bios settings afterwards can resolve such a problem, but it worked again. Furthermore, I don't know if resetting the bios settings is necessary. Maybe someone can try it and see if it works on other systems as well.

    my configuration:
    AMD Athlon X2 6000+
    3 GB Corsair MX2 800 mhz Ram
    Sapphire Radeon HD4870
    Sapphire Pure 780 G Mainboard

    cheers eisfeld
     
  8. Vimto87

    Vimto87 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Firstly, just for information, i think that out of everyone who posts here i probably know the least about this problem.
    Just scanned through the 47 pages, trying to get to grips with the problem (learned a lot of stuff btw).

    I have this problem but only and exclusively when i plug in my second monitor (sony bravia 32') to extend my desktop from my (22' stock Dell monitor).

    So unlike most other people its not essential, but very annoying. Does the consensus suggest that it is a problem with overheating? And if so how to a solve it?

    This thread is the first google response. So i think an administrative summary would be very nice.
     
  9. grog

    grog Roxy Music

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Messages:
    631
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I think we have a mixed bag of issues here.

    TDR or Not TDR
    Some reports are not TDR specific.

    For this to be the TDR specific issue it must either show the dialog message:

    [​IMG]

    Or the event viewer will have the following warning:
    Code:
    "Display driver atikmdag stopped responding and has successfully recovered" 
    Timeout Detection and Recovery of GPUs through WDDM

    All other issues are not TDR specific.

    Dual Monitors
    It does appear that using multiple monitors can cause a TDR to occur for some. In my testing I found that having two displays does have an effect on the system.

    With a second display connected using HDMI I was not able to reach the same overclock level on my 4850 as I can with only one display connected.

    Granted I had to overclock to cause a TDR issue but this test does show the impact dual displays have on TDR. Maybe if I had an older CRT laying around the results would have been more sensitive.

    Heat - Air-Flow
    Overclocking is easy way to see a TDR message. If you overclock your card to far then you will see it.

    One issue with the 4850 series is the inability to see the VRM and memory temperatures. We can use CCC or GPU-Z to see the GPU temperatures but the VRM diode does not exist on the 4850. Oh.. the 4870 does have the VRM diode so we can see the VRM values on that card.

    Still the issue of heat is more of air-flow.
    My ASUS 4850 for example uses a Glaciator FanSink which does not have heatsinks on the VRM or memory. Instead air is passed over the VRM area. This works very well and keeps the VRM temperatures in check.

    Newegg.com - ASUS EAH4850 TOP/HTDI/512M Radeon HD 4850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Desktop Graphics / Video Cards

    In cases where a good heatsink is used on the VRM and memory air flow must still be maintained. Many 3rdParty cooling solutions do not include VRM and memory protection in the form of headsinks. Still, as long as good air-flow is achived across the VRM and memory the card should be fine at stock settings.

    I have seen a few pictures of 4800 series cards mounted in cases where you could see no path for air flow at all.

    A good case with good air-flow is required for stable operation.

    Power-Supply
    Another cause of TDR's can be lack of good clean power.

    Laptops
    I don't know how many have noticed. A great number of TDR reports are from those using laptops. So the Mobiliy Radeon 2600 appears to have the same issue as the 4850 and 4870's. In many of these cases we are still seeing dual monitors being used, just with a laptop!

    User Data
    Most who are posting issues have very little data in their sigs or the posts on their system.

    Increasing the TdrDealy has been addressed in this thread but I have no idea if this method has helped anyone or if those who have problems have tried it or not.


    Timeout Detection and Recovery of GPUs through WDDM
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2008
  10. Vimto87

    Vimto87 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    ok
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2008
  11. TayRoc

    TayRoc New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2008
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    i'm just a normal guy who wants his computer to work like its supposed to and i don't understand any of this compuspeak. if there is in fact a solution at all, could you explain it to me in human terms?
     
  12. BadMouth

    BadMouth New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2008
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    JCKSON79:
    If your system is not detecting the correct memory installed, then you may have a ram problem, which maybe the TDR cause. Just for clarity and to inform users that if your system does not detect the actual ram installed in your system and I mean even if it’s 1 percent off, then you may have a problem with ram. Below is the actual maximum ram each type of vista operating system can use:


    32-bit versions of Windows Vista:
    Home Basic 4GB
    Home Premium 4GB
    Home Business 4GB
    Enterprise 4GB
    Ultimate: 4GB
    Vista Starter: 1GB


    64-bit versions of Windows Vista:
    Home Basic 8GB
    Home Premium 16GB
    Business 128GB
    Enterprise 128GB
    Ultimate 128GB


    Again, if your system does not fully detect your ram installed, you need to check what can be causing this problem it is vital that all systems detect the proper amount of ram installed.
    B.M
     
  13. grog

    grog Roxy Music

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Messages:
    631
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Sure.

    For the TDR issues which this thread is dealing with there are some things a user can do.

    TDR = Timeout Detection and Recovery of GPUs.
    When a timeout occurs the error "Display driver atikmdag stopped responding and has successfully recovered" will either be displayed as a pop-up or you will see the warning message in the event logs.

    What this means is Vista was able to prevent a possible system hang by catching the fault. Now if the timeout values are too low then we may see the TDR occur when it should not.

    It appears that users with more than one active monitor have seen the TDR events during what would be idle times.

    If the user desires he can adjust the default timeout value to see if the TDR's will go away. The only way to do this is to add keys to the registry. Microsoft has information on how to do this but it is not for the faint of heart.

    Timeout Detection and Recovery of GPUs through WDDM

    So if I am a normal human how can I fix the issue if I don't want to edit the registry.

    1. Find a friend who is able to help
    2. Remove the secondary monitor until the issue is officially resolved.
    Others are having problems when overclocking or using custom heatsinks. If you are overclocking then simply don't overclock if stabiliy is what you desire and TDR's is what you see.

    If you are not using dual monitors and you are not overclocking or using custom heatsinks then you might have a faultly card. In this case RMA the card would be in order.

    But now to the real issue here.
    Let me put it in normal terms.

    Let's say your car was not running right. You call to find someone to repair it and tell you what is wrong with the car. You say 'I don't know cars, I just it fixed'. How can the mechanic tell you how much the repair might cost if he does not know the make of the car or what you think the problem is?

    If the issue of this thread is what you are seeing I can guess but I am not sure what your actual problem is.

    If you have a problem with Dual monitors and when you plan Crysis you get a TDR then for now remove the secondary monitor when you play that game.

    The TDR issue is being looked at by Microsoft, ATI and NVIDIA. The concept is a good one but some users are having issues.

    The number of users effected with the TDR problem is very small.

     
  14. Raduque

    Raduque New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2004
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Has anybody else installed the 8.12s? I've been running for nearly 12 hours now with no TDR, with previous versions I would get them within minutes of enabling Aero and within minutes of waking up the monitors. I'll see what it looks like after I get home from work.

    I'm using dual monitors with different resolutions, but the SAME refresh rate (both are 60hz LCDs).
     
  15. The.Rat

    The.Rat New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    @grog,

    Very interesting reading. According to your definition I do NOT suffer from TDR's. At present all I get is a loop of 16 errors in Event Viewer every time I play any form of video or a FLAC audio file. The error in Event Viewer is an EventID 52236, Source - Atikmdag. The description shows as "CPLIB :: General - Invalid Parameter".

    Apart from my Event Viewer filling with thousands of these errors I do not appear to be suffering any ill-effects on my system at all.

    Can you or anyone else here suggest a fix for these annoying errors?

    cheers
     
  16. grog

    grog Roxy Music

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Messages:
    631
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    28
    You are correct. Your problem is not the TDR issue.
    The CLIB library appears to be used mainly for DRM protection layer.
    The messages from the CLIB:: component normally refer to HDCP issues.

    Do a google search for 'cplib hdcp' and you will see.

    cplib hdcp - Google Search

    Here are a couple examples of warning messages for CPLIB:: you might see in the event viewer other than the ones you have seen:

    Code:
    CPLIB :: HDCP - Failed HDCP key binding verification.
    CPLIB :: General - Failed to authenticate output protection. 
    As I said before, the CPLIB:: events can be ignored.
    I could go into more technical details with this issue but NDA will only allow me to give you public available data which I think is enough to show the cause of the event.



     
  17. The.Rat

    The.Rat New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thanks for the explanation. I'll just ignore them as they aren't causing me any problems.

    I will make one last observation tho. It appears to me that the errors in Event Viewer seems to be pointing to an error in the drivers such as a Parameter missing or an incorrect Parameter. Whether the "renegade" Parameter (wherever it is to be found in the drivers) is invalid because of a change in the way X4000 series deal with it or whether it is the way Vista, or a Vista update or even the Vista SP1 handles it.

    Whatever the reason, I'm sure the guys at ATI could fix the drivers to ensure the error doesn't occur.

    I'll leave it at that and leave this topic to those that really do have TDR problems.

    cheers
     
  18. australis

    australis New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2008
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I've been having tdr issues, when I play games. At 2D no problem with aero and installing 8.12 didn't help. I regret the day that I build this pc, especially choosing ati. None of my nvidia owner friends have this issue. (and yes I know there are some out there) Still waiting for new "solutions"(!).
     
  19. CATALYSTCATCHER

    CATALYSTCATCHER ATI Guru

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2003
    Messages:
    0
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    But also consider that the player could be providing bad parameters to the driver. The codecs could be providing bad parameters. There are also other possibilites. You are correct that the driver could fix bad parameters if the driver were producing them. But the driver is just the messenger and only honors the requests and assumes the parrameters are valid, which may not be a good assumption. And in a similar way the driver could do bounds checking on the parameters (coming from eleswhere) and if they are incorrect a workaround could possibly be created, This is quite common in many drivers but tends to slow things down, so it is only done when there is no alternative. But to figure it out the developers must debug and completely understand the fault, which is the toughest part of the equation.

    Your event log entries may be worth investigating, but they are certainly not as painfull as the TDR message and mini dump scenario. So I suggest you take a break for the holiday and then keep searching for more clues regarding the player issues you are seeing.
     
  20. Raduque

    Raduque New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2004
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Two minutes shy of 23 hours since I installed the cat 8.12s and I just got a TDR while reading a page in FF3.
     

Share This Page

visited