Windows Vista = Windows Me II?

Discussion in 'Industry News' started by Vikingod, Apr 27, 2007.

  1. ronnn

    ronnn New Member

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    Yes microsoft will soon completely quit selling xp and that will be the end. Personally I think ms should drop the price of xp - but they have no competetion. So I guess I am biased and would rather enjoy seeing ms sputter and Bill Gates lose a few billion. :sleep:
     
  2. shanok

    shanok New Member

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    Nothing is for free eh?

    Services eating up cycles?

    Wow sounds like a load of FUD to me.

    Then again maybe you just don't know how the common DRM framework actually works.

    It's only active when something calls the framework. It's one of those automatic processes that starts and stops as needed.

    You should really also research that article more carefully, it's already been shown (and proven) to be a load of bull.

    I can point out one example and let you look up the others.

    His point about SACD is completely false, they work just fine via SPDIF.

    Just give it a whirl.
     
  3. Judas

    Judas Obvious Closet Brony Pony

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  4. Judas

    Judas Obvious Closet Brony Pony

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    Anyone that has only READ about vista, and perhaps used it on perhaps 1 MAYBE 2 Machines very briefly, and are making comments that are negative about it, imo, would you shut the hell up. Your entitled to your opinion, but seriously the Vista flak being spit out in this thread are pretty much bullshit.

    Vista being slower then XP in boot times, wtf, the hunk of crap in comparison to todays machines boots up vista faster then xp. And it's below "minimum" requirements for vista.

    I've now used vista x64 and vista 32bit on nearly 20 machines with Various configurations, right from 700mhz P3's and 384mb of ram right up to well, my current machine in my profile, across a few intel and amd systems, i most avoid Nvidia, but the ati machines are solid with vista.
     
  5. MIG-31

    MIG-31 Old time Member.. Staff Member

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    I'm one who may of fallen into this category,i have installed windows vista twice since the release.I very much like the appearance of this OS,But the problems i have had outweighs the practical use (and yes i would like to stick with vista).I for one need several updates,And not just only Driver/Software updates.And the performance (game related) is poor in comparison to windows xp.

    It's appreciated that the may be some untruths told about Vista And many pc's differ in performance.What may work for you don't mean it Will work for others.

    I need to make a serious update of my pc before i make a full commitment to windows vista.But i'm short on the finance to do so.

    Not all Members can actually afford to keep up with all the latest hardware.And many different configurations affect boot up times.
     
  6. Judas

    Judas Obvious Closet Brony Pony

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    That's true.... sorry, rereading what i hade typed out is much much more harsh then i initially ment, it all came out a little wrong.


    That fact that the hunk of crap i put together is made up of a 700mhz P3, 384mb of ram, onboard 32mb video (shared), a 20gb hardrive, and that's pretty much it.

    While vista install on this machine, all performance results are 1.0, however the overall system responce is quite excellent when directly compared to that of windows xp.

    While initially the full capablities of the system wouldn't thought to be useable due no driver support really for the hardware, but vista full recognized the systems components, vista supplied drivers actually worked and works serpriseingly better then the windows XP drivers, using "outdated and unsupported" hardware and getting vista to run was a serprise to me.

    Now all the initial comments i got was "why the hell would you bother with vista on a machine like that", well the question if no different then "why the hell would you put xp on a 486 64mb machine", because with todays demands, internet use, people prefer the latest and greatest IF it appears to work smoothly with no hiccups or crashes, running windows 98 with a internet connection today is nearly suicidal with the average joes of today as well. Windows 98 you can't get ANY updates for at all, hell other then windows XP and Vista, those are the only 2 OSes that any REAL support is provided be it security or whatever else.

    So while the machines completely incapable of vista i setup with windows xp reguardless of the specs that i can get XP to even load up on and setup smoothly, all the machines that i can get vista working on, i'll load vista on if i can as well.

    Now MIG, you mentioned that you need obvious driver support for vista, which definitely isn't a vista issue as it's a support from the manufacturers issue. I would suspect that you'll agree with that. And performance issues, (game related) as you say is quite poor in comparison, once again, i would have to say this is a driver issue, considering that nvidia still has a bit of a bad rep with vista. But as for VISTA itself being the culprit, i would have to say nothing you've mentioned appears to be a direct stab at vista, so you don't fall into that category at all.

    While under fairly lets say "untuned/untweaked" booting, that windows xp and vista i've found to be comparible, vista's not slower in that department that i've seen, when things are lined up very well, vista sees a fairly decent lead over xp.

    You know, i'm going to make a poll cause i'd be seriously interested to see where the issues directly lay. I'm willing to go out on the limb and say that majority of the vista issues are directly related to the OEM builders machines that were previously loaded with XP and don't have proper vista support from them and people are bitching about vista issues that are actually ALL OEMs faults.

    Then i would say that probably a small percentage of those with custom computers, that vista issues are probably directly related to nvidia users with either zero or extremely poor driver support.

    Then from there, it's accesorries that don't have proper vista support.

    The only reaccuring bug i've ran into is that Within vista, IF the entire Users folder is moved to a different location, that Favorites can not be added. The other one i'm aware of is the weird issues modifying the start menu within all users or under a specific user.


    Like i've mentioned several times before, i've YET to see a critical error/BSOD from vista itself, all the errors seem to be directly tied to a device/driver issue that need to be ironed out which means that vista isn't at fault at all, it's the manufacturers.

    Windows ME on the other hand would be installed, and you'd see several critical errors on a machine it just simply wouldn't agree with emediately to the point of making the system completely unbootable under some conditions, and this is on a clean install before getting any drivers installed in the first place. So really, i CANNOT even see a comparison of the 2 of them.
     
  7. Mousey

    Mousey HH's Official Rodent

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    hijack - it's spelt ridiculous BlueMak :)
    and vista actually runs pretty well on my rig, Pent. D 915, 1 gb generic DDR400 ram and a 9550.
    for some reason i've lost aero all of a sudden though and i can't find the little thing that tells you what's died
     
  8. Judas

    Judas Obvious Closet Brony Pony

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    to check to see if aero is available again.

    right click desktop, hit personalize~> Window Color and Apperance~>Open Classic Appearance Properties for More Color options~>

    In the Color Scheme, Windows Aero SHOULD be listed if it's listed. Select it and hit apply, volla.

    However in the case that it's not available, The only thing that effects Area that i'm aware of is Video Card Drivers and capabilities, you may have to uninstall the ati drivers and reinstall them, then rerun the Performance Rating system in vista.

    On one machine, i had this happen with the ati 9550
     
  9. MIG-31

    MIG-31 Old time Member.. Staff Member

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    It's not as much a Vista problem im having judas.Nvidia's last drivers was an improvement from the previous release but they still need work (for my pc anyway).Most of my additional hardware,along with some software is a git to install,let alone to work properly.

    Bluetooth software that i require simply don't work along with others.

    I'm not criticising Windows Vista in general.But i am actually hoping for a good 6 months or so at work (after July) i'm hoping to switch to a intel Dual Core pc,and maybe a SLI set up with DX10 GC's.Only after this i will switch to vista.It's going to depend on what i can afford along with what i can get for my current pc.
     
  10. Judas

    Judas Obvious Closet Brony Pony

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    I didn't think you were directly criticising windows vista, Yes the nvidia drivers are "getting better" but need work, it's however unfortuneate that your having other issues with your other system critical parts however.

    The point i think i'm trying to make is that people need to stand back and take a logical look at what the hell is going on. To many people are emediately, split seconds into it, blaming vista and microsoft for every conceiveable itty bitty issues and then comparing it to the semi disaster that ME was.

    Everyone thinks (and this irritates me more then ever) that If you running windows, that's it, no one realizes that there are drivers/ 3rd party software. What's even more irritating, HP and dell and toshiba and countless others that are SHIPPING computer preloaded with vista, and shipping them as a semi working machine, they screw over vista's features and stability as well as useability the moment they start forcing thier OWN 3rd party programs down vista throat, at which point it's no longer really a microsoft product, it's a butchered, baseball beaten version of microsoft vista that are now causing more grief. And people just sit around and bitch that it's ALL microsofts fault.

    I really think that microsoft should pull out the legal pappers and only allow HP and other brands to install a version of vista that isn't actually labeled as VISTA, but Named something else.
     
  11. HardwareHeaven

    HardwareHeaven Administrator Staff Member

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    mmm, Mis-intrepreting the statement intentionally to prove a point perhaps? Also any need to be forming replies so crudely?, you certainly won't get bonus points from me for attempting to sound like a smartass.


    Of course, who said you wouldn't ? Just colourful phrasing on your part? I certainly hope so.

    The point I was making, was merely that with higher end hardware the gains are more noticeable when moving from XP to Vista, especially with Quad core processors. Vista handles multiple cores much better than XP - which is a good indication of the underlaying code and the improvements. Obviously I can't expect you to verify this as you don't have a huge array of hardware at hand to test, however I do. Of course a quad core is fast on XP, however in windows and certain applications, including multithreading, Vista is better. You can't even begin to compare the OS with gaming just yet, the GFX drivers are in their infancy on Vista.

    Again, I would love to know who exactly you are referencing here? I think you are reading too many of the nonsense propoganda "tech" articles posted online claiming everything ranging from "OMG vista is broken" to "I ran Vista and my house caught on fire". Clearly you are aware Vista is hot news right now and anything with "vista sucks" in the headline will get huge hits and people talking about it, right???. This thread for instance is a prime example.

    The Way I see it we have three factions of people. Faction 1: XP users who hate the OS already because they feel for varying reasons they don't need it, and don't want bill gates having more money (anyone here given away billions to worthwhile causes via charity btw? im guessing not) - most of these people a: haven't tried the OS, or b: tried beta 1 last year and think it still sucks. Faction 2: The undecided who unfortunately haven't tried Vista and are probably scared to try the OS after reading all the FUD about it online from idiots out to get hits and finally Faction 3: the guys who have tried both and have a more subjective viewpoint.

    If you don't believe me, that's fine, but equally so, don't base your own opinion on other reports from tech sites, until you try it in your own environment you will never know.
     
  12. Vampyromaniac

    Vampyromaniac confutatis maledictis

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    Thank you, Dyre. Always helpful.

    I realise that whole tangent is off the topic, so I'll leave it be.
     
  13. Monkeyboy

    Monkeyboy New Member

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    "Then again maybe you just don't know how the common DRM framework actually works."


    Sounds like you're spreading a bit of FUD there yourself. ;)

    To quote from MS themselves:

    "Windows Media DRM functions will connect
    to the internet (or intranet) to acquire licenses,
    download security upgrades, and perform license
    restoration."

    Anything which sits waiting in the background for updates, sounds like it is using resources to me.

    And there can be no other reason that big manufacturers like Nvidia and Creative have had such trouble and taken so long to get working Vista drivers out than this DRM rubbish. We're talking about big players here, who would have had access to not only the beta builds but the SDKs too for a very long time before the final rtm of Vista.

    As it is, I like many of the things in Vista and have always been a fan of MS' software, which I happen to think is some of the most innovative in the world (or I would never have become MCSE certified). With 20 years' worth of IT under my belt I'm always keen to see what the latest and greatest from MS can achieve. However, I really think they have gone too far this time.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2007
  14. Golbeze

    Golbeze New Member

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    Uh, that statement didn't say it's waiting in the background to do that stuff. That stuff you mentioned can be easily performed when the service is called for by a media file. Is there more to that statement, showing that it does indeed sit idle in the background, waiting for updates?
     
  15. Judas

    Judas Obvious Closet Brony Pony

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    Golbeze has an excellent point.

    There are dozens of services that sit unused, not running, not even in the background doing anything, until something specifically calls it forward.

    What i find somewhat amusing is that people are giving vista flak for hogging memory and everything when i've seen the oposite, it cache a pile of the physical memory, yes, but the memory management in vista appears to be FAR superior to that of xp in every way. (and seriously, with such a long time between windows versions, i would hope vista was better in many ways).

    What's funny about things is that people install a pile of programs, and the sheer number of backgrounds tasks that start popping up is astounding, 99% of which don't even need to startup.

    Install powerdvd, and get Richvideo.exe which DOESN'T NEED to be running along with a remotecontrol service which is totally useless for most.

    Install a HP Printer or scanner or all in one product and the resulting list of crap that's packed into the startup can reach a staggering 8 extra processes, only one of which is REALLY nessary for anything and in most cases, can be disabled anyways.

    I can go on for hours.
     
  16. Da_Jewish_Fonzy

    Da_Jewish_Fonzy Me>You

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    yeah thanks for the tip, I'm glad to see its running "well":lol:
     
  17. PangingJr

    PangingJr Member

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    Sorry a little off topic, but when i saw the word i immediately thought of this old article...

    ==============

    http://www.radsoft.net/resources/software/reviews/redux/rr3.html

    Resources? We don't need no stinkin' resources!
    Part of the problem here is the weight of the word 'resources'. It's a great word for the rainmakers, as it simultaneously means everything and nothing. No one on the user side really knows what it is, but it sure sounds important if not vital; and no one on the vendor side really cares. When in doubt, call it 'resources' - you win a sale every time.

    'Resources' on 9x don't officially exist, and to the extent that they still do, they're part of the 9x miasma you want to forget.

    =========================
     
  18. GutterPunk

    GutterPunk I = Greatest Dood

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    Im guessing its not retail haha
     
  19. Chrysalis

    Chrysalis New Member

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    I have used it and glad I set it up with dual boot as I needed my old XP installation again after.

    All the performance issues ring true for me, I seemed to have processing lag when using it especially when playing mp3 files in WMP it was very slow.

    I have noticed the people who like vista are very stubborn reject things that are pointed out about vista and its problems and expect people to be adopting to it within the first quarter of release, in debates with some fans of vista I tried to get them to explain to me what vista offers them that XP doesnt and why they like it better then XP. The responses were along the lines of its newer and some were saying its faster. On the subject of been faster I suspect its a imaginary speed increase or maybe they upgraded from a old bloated install of XP and have the freshness of a new OS installation, many of them were the cutting edge type people who buy £400 state of the art graphics cards and processors so were not using it on what you would call mainstream hardware.

    My hw specs, amd 64 3500+ 2 gig ram raptor hd and 7600GT, nothing to shout about but certianly not ancient.

    Also I hate the vista interface, diff control panel, diff explorer interface etc. find things harder to do as I am not used to it, forgive me for not wanting to change from an interface I am used to.

    When idle cpu seems over used often idling above 3%.
     
  20. Necrosis

    Necrosis Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you're entitled to your on opinion which I appreciate more since you actually tried the OS. I'm not telling everyone to jump on board w/ Vista, actually saying quitet the otherwise unless you want to take the chance. BTW, what antivirus do you have & which raptor do you have? Some folks have had some strange issues with their Raptors & Vista
     

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