Would you donate for x64 kX drivers?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by igor_levicki, Aug 2, 2005.

?

Would you donate for the development of 64-bit kX driver?

  1. Yes I would

    65.6%
  2. No I would not

    34.4%
  1. igor_levicki

    igor_levicki Intel Black Belt

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    Hello everyone,
    I have seen some people asking about Windows XP Professional x64 Edition support. The answer was negative. I had a chat with Eugene about it and he told me that he doesn't have necessary equipment and software for development. That means x86-64 compatible computer and Windows XP Professional x64 Edition. Therefore I came up with the idea to make the poll to see how many people would actually help by donating money for the equipment and the OS.

    I was thinking about the following equipment:

    - ASUS P5LD2-VM
    - Intel Pentium D 820
    - 2x512MB DDR2 RAM, not too important which one
    - Windows XP Professional x64 Edition

    Before anyone else asks "why Intel, why not AMD", here is my reasoning that led me to suggest this configuration:

    - Intel platform already has all drivers for Windows XP Professional x64 Edition
    - Eugene doesn't play games, integrated graphics will work fine for the development.
    - PCI-express x16 slot exists so he can always upgrade if needed but initial cost is reduced because there is no need for graphics card.
    - Pentium D 820 is the cheapest dual-core CPU -- even the cheapest AMD dual-core would significantly add to the cost. I agree that the performance would be better but the added expense is not justified for the development
    - Dual-core CPU comes handy for testing threading and synchronization issues in drivers

    That's it -- you just have to vote. I would also ask dj_stick to make this thread sticky.
     
  2. JohnMcClane

    JohnMcClane New Member

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    It would be a good idea, but I doubt Eugene has the time to add x64 support. Writing drivers for x64 cannot be done by just recompiling, it takes up a lot of time.
     
  3. igor_levicki

    igor_levicki Intel Black Belt

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    Actually if I understood him correctly ~95% of the code is reusable/portable. The only thing that must be taken care of is DMA. So it may not take that much time.

    I believe that it would be possible for Eugene to find some time to do it, but one thing I am sure -- without equipment it won't be possible at all.

    I have seen quite a few posts lately requesting and inquiring about x64. Let's just see if people are ready to stretch a bit to get what they want.
     
  4. Tril

    Tril Triple screen racing ftw

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    I would not. I currently don't have a 64 bits cpu. If I upgrade to a 64 bits cpu, I'll change the whole computer and I'll also upgrade the soundcard to an even better soundcard (X-fi or something else). That means that I won't need the drivers for a card using the emu10kX once I change to 64 bits.
     
  5. ReWired

    ReWired New Member

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    I think Microsoft developed XP64 in closer collaboration with AMD, not with Intel...
    Anyway the point of Tril is quite interesting.
    But for sure there are two type of users:
    First are runnig quite okd and outdated PCs. They collect money and make upgrade to newer systems in one step - MB, CPU, RAM, HDDs, DVDs, monitors, audio and video...etc. For sure such people will migrate to better audio cards.
    Second are upgrading step-by-step. Those people may need kX support for their cards.

    As a matter of fact - kX makes non-professional card to act like expensive ones. With some hardware limitations, of course. And there will be always need of such "expansions" :)

    I any ways - support for XP64 will be needed soon, because most of kX users are "bedroom musicians" probably and what if they need XP64 for their main jobs? Then they will stop making music...or be forced to buy more expensive cards.....
     
  6. igor_levicki

    igor_levicki Intel Black Belt

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    It did, I have talked with one of Microsoft software engineers and he confirmed something I suspected for a long time. He said that AMD64 ABI (application binary interface for XP64) was planned with AMD 5 years ago. Knowing that you can conclude that Microsoft and AMD killed DEC Alpha on purpose. As you probably know Windows NT SP6 was the latest with support for Alpha CPUs. It was removed in Windows 2000 Beta 3. For me, it is just too much of a coincidence.

    Anyway, that has nothing to do with the choice of hardware. Intel's EM64T is binary compatible with AMD's AMD64. My choice was based simply on pricing.

    Regarding upgrade paths and need for x64 drivers, there is already x64 version of Cakewalk Sonar available with improved performance over 32-bit version. Other software will soon follow. I believe that many of us are not ready to dump their Audigy 2 and Audigy 2 ZS sound cards.

    Regarding X-fi, I have read about it. It is not so great as it seems at the first glance.

    First, DSP still works at fixed 48KHz internally and it does 96KHz by processing two halves of the signal instead of full 96KHz bandwidth -- main reason for this aproach is price and the complexity of IC design. Don't forget that the need for processing power quadruples when you double the sampling frequency.

    For some reading on the X-Fi check this page.
     
  7. mensan

    mensan New Member

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    I had donated a small amount once but for this kind of update and given Eugene will have to make a major upgrade i would give a bit more. The thing is 15 persons cannot donate 50e each, so ppl just realise your future machine will be 64bit and start supporting from now what should be out in a year or so.
     
  8. rune60625

    rune60625 New Member

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    The Intels have been having some problems, I would go with the AMD chip. I certainly would donate for a x64 driver that works, as the Creative labs one is worthless, and I had to pull the card out for now.

    Rune
     
  9. mensan

    mensan New Member

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    The results from the 32bit effort are so good it might be a good idea to donate for the x64 even before a release ;) Donations aid the development, they are not a means of recompensation. Just my 2 cents
     
  10. ojlehtin

    ojlehtin Kx User

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    Even though I've been using kX for quite a long time I haven't donated anything so far (shame on me). Ofcourse kX is supposed to be free and so on but a little encouragement never hurts.

    Now about this x64 support. It is clear, that after a while most of our computers will be x64, and at the current state kX won't work on them. That's really sad because working with kX is really effective and even inspiring. The feeling of taking control of the card over this big bad corporation (a small exageration perhaps, sorry) is a good one. Anyway, at the current state, we'll lose the whole thing.

    This appears to be an important moment to flip in a coin and I guess none us would really go bancrupt if we gave say 10e or even more. That's not much compared to buing some professional equipment once kX is rendered useless and atleast I don't have any real need for giving up my audigy2.

    Also, if we could help out at this point we'd perhaps give Eugene some steam for pushing it on. As far as I know he's been loosing his motivation for this project. Ofcourse it's totally his own business if he keeps on doing it or not, but if he'd be shown there is some _real_ interest for his efforts he'd choose to go on for a while. Plus he'd get some spiffy new hardware which allways gives everyone joy and energy.

    Oswald


    p.s. I don't know if it's possible to label the donations via PayPal for example so that Eugene would see what for the money was given. If it is, I guess people would feel more comfortable donating.

    p.p.s. At this point when we don't know if anyone else is donating we fear perhaps no one else is and our money will be given in vain. Don't sweat it. Everyone can live with a little insecurity.
     
  11. ojlehtin

    ojlehtin Kx User

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    Just donated 25 USD. Now I feel like a better person :) You should try it too.
     
  12. RvC-Kenny

    RvC-Kenny New Member

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    eugene plz give a short statement about that. i dont wanna try vista without my audigy 2 @kX! or get at least the kxmixer to work in vista 32bit. if that situation about the 64bit isnt hopeless i will donate some money again.
    but i would go for amd X2 and a asrock dualsata board. you can keep your old agp graphicscard and ram. the system is cheap and stable.
     
  13. vmm

    vmm New Member

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    Or someone else (I know Eugene must be extremely busy), is it possible to install kX Drivers on an AMD64 system on Windows XP too? Or doesn't it work only on a XP64 Windows installation?
     
  14. RvC-Kenny

    RvC-Kenny New Member

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    winxp(32) on an athlon64 is no problem, its still 32bit but the hardware is able to run 64bit with winxp64
     
  15. vmm

    vmm New Member

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    That's what I hoped to hear! I can safely whipe my xp64 now :) Thanks Kenny
     
  16. SPYRO

    SPYRO New Member

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    I will donate for sure.
     
  17. Micha80

    Micha80 New Member

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    Donate is done!
     
  18. Battlesnake

    Battlesnake New Member

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    I own an x64 system (ASUS M3A78-EMH HDMI & AMD X2 5200+), with XP Pro x64 and a SB Live! 5.1 Digital (EMU10k1).

    I'd be happy to create a beta x64 version, until Eugene has raised enough money to get his x64 box. I also have a MIDI controller (Evolution MK-449C), so can test the MIDI side of things.

    I can be contacted at
    js07mkc [at] leeds [dot] ac [dot] uk
     
  19. RIV@NVX

    RIV@NVX Freedom is a feature.

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    Eugene is _not_ coding any x64 drivers so far, and they aren't even planned, afaik.
     
  20. Eugene Gavrilov

    Eugene Gavrilov kX Project Lead Programmer and Coordinator

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    Îòâåò: Would you donate for x64 kX drivers?

    the answer for all this 'x64' question is quite simple: as soon as I use x64 as my -primary- OS, I will port kX to it. If I just start it for 5-10 min per month, I doubt I will work on the driver - it is a resource-consuming work, not just a 'recompile'.

    I'm considering re-writing kX Mixer for OSX and Windows, and make it cross-platform.
    This may speed-up x64 migration...
    But, as always, no promises and release dates.

    E.
     

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