xtram memory and plugins

Discussion in 'Effects and the DSP' started by trevbushell, May 25, 2005.

  1. trevbushell

    trevbushell New Member

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    Hi,
    i've had a short conversation regarding Xtram memory in dsp on a prev thread and wondered if anyone had ideas, suggestions and comments?

    I struggle with the fact that you can only load a limited amount of fx into dsp i.e- even when clear the dsp wuill not load aps delay and a reverb at the same time.

    russ mentioned this- You can however increase the amount of xTram available under "Settings" -> "Setup Buffers" -> "Tank Memory Size" (although it is recommended that you do not change these settings (I am not sure why)).Again, I am not sure why changing those settings is not recommended but I think it is something along these lines: The tank memory and the various buffers are allocated in the Non-Paged area, which contains the core code of the system (parts of the System which are so important that they may never be paged out). It is a limited resource, and may be used by other drivers, and possibly some system utilities, etc, so you pretty much want to only use what is absolutley necessary as it could have an affect on system stability and performance, etc.


    is this something you can do carefully to enable more fx to be loaded (i use a lot of soundfonts and the only way to add fx onto these is thro dsp)? and if so what settings are safe?


    or is there another way to increae use of plugins?
    hopefully
    trev
     
  2. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member

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    Just to confirm (if it is not obvious), my previous reply was guesswork. As I originally stated, I do not know the reasoning why, but I have seen in several previous posts, that you should not change those settings unless instructed to do so. Some of the obvious reasons are related to audio quality and CPU utilization, etc., but I would think that you could take note of the default settings, and then try other settings and see how well they work over time. Just beware that it could effect other kX Settings, and system performance, so thorough testing would be required, and I would guess that the optimal settings would be completely dependant upon the system configuration, etc. I would try setting the Tank Memory Size to 512, and test it for a while and see if you have any problems. That (Tank Memory Size -- xTram) is really the only thing that you have any control over as far as DSP resources go, as the rest are hardware limits (which are different for 10k1 and 10k2 cards), so if you are getting errors (related to DSP resources) about anything other than xTram, than there is nothing you can do, other than using less resource expensive plugins.

    Anyone who knows more about the settings under Setup Buffers, please add any info you have, and feel free to correct me where I may be wrong.

    -Russ
     
  3. radiocolonel.it

    radiocolonel.it New Member

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    hi, i had the same problem, especially with plugins working with delay lines.
    I just changed the Tank Memory and it worked for me, i was able to using more effects.:)
     
  4. trevbushell

    trevbushell New Member

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    what did you change the tank memory to.. just out of interest?
    did you get any probs with doing it?
    does it depend on your memory i.e.i have 512 mb memory?
    thanx for you interest
    trev
     
  5. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member

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    It should not matter how much ram you have as the max (hardware) is only 2MB (which is a little more then 20 seconds of delay).
     
  6. radiocolonel.it

    radiocolonel.it New Member

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    I set the tank memory to 2048Kb (the maximum allowed)...
    since i was trying a 20 seconds delay...
    Russ is right about ram stuff, it takes 2Mb so it should not be a ram problem:(
     
  7. trevbushell

    trevbushell New Member

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    Thanks russ and radiocolonel,
    ah, ok so its about how much the audio chip can give you, right? and you have a max of 2mb to use indsp because of this.. have i got it?

    i tried changing tank memory size to the max but still couldnt bring in plugins. for example i tried to bring in a delay or another reverb, when i had a reverb and a delay already.. it said "no more free tram registers". is that a different thing then. am i being thick? i really am a novice here so find it difficult to get to grips with it!
    maybe i'm just expecting too much of the dsp?
    trev
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2005
  8. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, it is basically about what hardware is available on the sound card, and how much host Ram (for xTram) it was designed to be able to access. The max is 2MB, and because it is host memory and not memory on the sound card itself (as opposed to iTram), it must go through the PCI bus, and thus can effect performance.

    In addition to the limits on Tram, there is also a hardware limit on the number of Tram registers that can be used. Tram registers are basically the taps on the delay line (both read and write points), so filters with a lot of taps (like Reverb) on the delay line will quickly use up all of those available resources (on 10k1 cards the limit is only 32 for xTram... I am not sure about 10k2 cards). Again at the top the of DSP Window (labelled iTram/xTram) you can see these limits as well, and what the current usage is. Again this is a hardware limit and is not a setting that can be changed (if you think about it, 32 taps on xTram means that it needs to read and write to host memory, over the PCI bus, 32 times (if all the registers are in use) every cycle (48000 times per second), and this should shed some light as to why the number of xTram registers is less than the number of iTram registers, etc).
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2005
  9. trevbushell

    trevbushell New Member

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    thanx russ that was a useful teaching session. think ive got it now!:D
    trev
     

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